Joan Crawford

[phil noir]

I couldn't see a thread devoted only to Joan Crawford, so I thought I'd start one up.

Although I've always enjoyed Mildred Pierce, I'd never really seen that many JC films - Humoresque, Grand Hotel, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, Johnny Guitar, but all a good few years ago. Then recently I rented the 1947 Possession - a superb noir in which she plays a woman teetering on the edge of madness - and stumbled across various of her films on youtube. Last week I watched Our Modern Maidens and Sadie McKee. Sadie McKee - wow! I have to say that the sight of the young Crawford was a revelation. She was absolutely riveting in this film. To me she typified the essence of a film star. And her character was so thoroughly hard as nails - I liked that she didn't even bother trying to ingratiate herself with the audience.

I know that the quality of her films went off after the early to mid fifties, and I find her heavy on the eyebrows look from this time a bit disconcerting, but in Sadie McKee, she was stunningly beautiful in a completely unique way (i.e.: a way that could not be profitably imitated by others and that made the most of her unusual features.)

I did see Mommie Dearest a few years ago, but I have to say I'm not much interested in her private life - that's all been hashed and rehashed so much already.

Any other fans? Or anyone that simply can't stand her? I'd be interested to hear.

[myrnaloyisdope]

Put me down as a fan. It took a me a little while, but I've come around fully on her. I mean I had seen some of her classics like Mildred Pierce and Johnny Guitar, and was impressed, but I think seeing her in Grand Hotel made me really how pretty she was, and kind of changed my perception of her. I had only known her as the tough older woman, so seeing her so young and vulnerable was quite the change. It kind of gave her some heart in my mind.

I would argue that she is the quintessential female movie-star in that she epitomizes the glamorous, luxurious, larger-than-life persona that I think one associates with the classic Hollywood movie star. There's a great interview I read in John Kobal's People Will Talk, in which she talks about how it is her duty to dress in the best clothes, and always look glamorous anytime she goes out, because it is was her fans expect a movie star to look like. It sounds a little Norma Desmond-ish, but I also think its admirable, and shows a great amount of respect for her persona, her career, and even for Hollywood. I kind of wish today's stars had that same kind of dedication to their image. The illusion of glamor is something I wish still existed, at least on some level.

[charliechaplinfan]

I think she has terrific bone structure and is luminously beautiful and full of life in her early pictures. She steals Grand Hotel away from all the big named stars, most of her scenes are with Wallace Beery who very few costars found easy to get along with.

[moira finnie]

I agree about Crawford's impact on screen when young, particularly when she worked with director Clarence Brown in the '30s, who could draw such a nuanced non-verbal performance from her, revealing her fervid longing and vulnerability in films such as Possessed (1931).

One performance by Joan Crawford that I've come to appreciate in recent years is in A Woman's Face (1941). Director George Cukor's movie is often treated as camp and denigrated because it is a remake of the Swedish film that brought Ingrid Bergman her first international notice, but in the MGM production Crawford is extraordinary, exploring all the ways in which a woman's appearance can enhance and twist her soul. If you see this movie, some of the best scenes are between her and Conrad Veidt. Two exceptional non-verbal moments occur in this movie in the mirrored hall outside his apartment when she is keenly aware of the difference between her outer and inner self.

[srowley75]

I'm a big Crawford fan, especially of her post-Mildred Pierce films. Even though some of those pictures may be aesthethically bad or over the top, they're nevertheless great fun. I mean, if you're at home alone one rainy night and need something to go with your popcorn, round up Torch Song, Female on the Beach, Queen Bee and/or Strait Jacket and I guarantee you'll have a ball.

That said, I also like her late 1920s-early 1930s performances. During the late 1930s and early 1940s, her hits seemed few and far between (several of those films are real snoozers), but she still had some winners here and there - The Women, A Woman's Face, Strange Cargo (which I like because it's...well...strange).

-Stephen

[Mr. Arkadin]

I love Crawford as well. I'm not really partial to any period, although like Phil Noir, I'm a big fan of Possessed (1947).

[moira finnie]

A question for those who like Joan Crawford:

I can't think of any color film of hers that I really want to see again, but in black and white, she was so much more effective, and had a kind of luminescent magnetism and inherent drama in her face. Do you think it may have been just because she was older, or was there something about her style of acting that was more acceptable in b & w?

[jdb1]

A question for those who like Joan Crawford:

I can't think of any color film of hers that I really want to see again, but in black and white, she was so much more effective, and had a kind of luminescent magnetism and inherent drama in her face. Do you think it may have been just because she was older, or was there something about her style of acting that was more acceptable in b & w?

That is a very good question, Moira, and I think it's a valid one. Now that you have mentioned it, I agree that I never found Crawford particularly enhanced on color film, as would be, say Lucille Ball, who looked pretty darn good in b&w, but was phenomenonal to behold in color. I think the b&w advantage is true for Bette Davis, as well. I don't think it's a question of age, or even of beauty, either. It has to do with persona, and with the vibes certain actors give off from the screen.

Being inthe business world for so many years, I have observed that some men just aren't well served by wearing suits; even if the suit is well-tailored to them, they don't look any more authoritative, and always look better, and more at ease, in casual clothes.

By the same token, it seems there is something about the b&w gestalt that serves some actors better than others.

[Dewey1960]

"I can't think of any color film of hers that I really want to see again..."
I'm a big Joan Crawford fan too, especially the films she made between 1945 and 1955. Most notably, for me at least, is the great "Tru-Color" western epic JOHNNY GUITAR she made for director Nicholas Ray at Republic Studios. I realize that, for many, this is a particularly unbearable film, but I believe it's one of Crawford's best and most interesting performances. Pure Freudian magic!
[youtube][/youtube]

[moira finnie]

Those are interesting points, Judith and Dewey. It's funny, but I don't find Lucy at all impressive in color, but like her in her black and white roles such as Dance, Girl, Dance, Lured, The Dark Corner and Without Love.

One of the aspects of Johnny Guitar that I find most interesting is the use of color. I don't regard it as a true color movie, since its primary colors--like the primal emotions it deals in--are emphatic and drained of all softness and nuance. Broad swaths of RED, EARTH and BLACK are used in a kind of bold shorthand make this viewer feel as though I'm watching a movie set on the moon populated by aliens, not the American Southwest with flesh and blood people. But, that's probably just me...

[charliechaplinfan]

I loved her performance in a A Woman's Face by my favorite Joan performance is in Grand Hotel. In some of her silent films I felt she didn't really come through, I'm thinking of films like West Point and Tramp Tramp Tramp.

I can't honestly remember watching Joan in colour.

[srowley75]

I can't think of any color film of hers that I really want to see again, but in black and white, she was so much more effective, and had a kind of luminescent magnetism and inherent drama in her face. Do you think it may have been just because she was older, or was there something about her style of acting that was more acceptable in b & w?

I liked her in Johnny Guitar, and I also liked her cameo in It's a Great Feeling.

I think Technicolor certainly was less forgiving of that heavy makeup and those famous eyebrows. They gave her a harder kabuki-esque look, especially in Torch Song (the publicity stills from that film will give you a start). I can't help but think at least one director made the decision to film her in black and white simply because of her features, especially in those later years. If Faye Dunaway in Mommie Dearest was any indication at all of what Joan looked like during that time, I'd have certainly opted for filming her in black and white - the contrast between her face, the blazing red lipstick and the heavy black eyebrows is just too distracting (and dare I say disturbing) in color.

-Stephen

[moira finnie]

Having seen the unbelievably camp Torch Song a couple of times, the publicity stills were only half the technicolor story, Steve. I believe your perception about color being less forgiving of the Kabuki-like makeup is precisely right.

[phil noir]

Maybe I'm misremembering this from something I've read, but isn't it true that Technicolor, at least in it's early days, required a greater number of lights for the scene to be illuminated properly? A colour film was meant to be bright and dazzling - e.g.: the 20th Century Fox and MGM musicals of the forties. Colour therefore took the place of the light and shadow effects of the black and white films. The audience came to see the whole screen bursting with colour, not for part of it to be obscured by shadow.

So, my rather confused theory is that in a black and white film, the lighting of a scene could be keyed to work around the magnificent bone structure of Crawford's face: that was the spectacle. In a colour film, although this would be possible, it might have seemed rather a waste of the possibilities of colour.

[phil noir]

I'm a big Crawford fan, especially of her post-Mildred Pierce films. Even though some of those pictures may be aesthethically bad or over the top, they're nevertheless great fun. I mean, if you're at home alone one rainy night and need something to go with your popcorn, round up Torch Song, Female on the Beach, Queen Bee and/or Strait Jacket and I guarantee you'll have a ball.

Well, acting on your advice, I've been watching Female on the Beach on youtube. I have to say, I really enjoyed it! Fantastic love-hate dialogue between Crawford and Jeff Chandler, e.g.:

"You're about as friendly as a suction pump" and "I wouldn't have you if you were hung with diamonds upside down". At one point, trying to put Chandler down, she rejects his invitation to go on a boat trip to an island by saying, "I was on an island once. They're all alike." [Pause] "Round." (You have to imagine Crawford's exaggeratedly lady-like tones here to get the full effect.)

Most of the cast apart from Crawford were thoroughly criminal and ruthless - nice performances from Cecil Kellaway and Natalie Schaefer as the apparently neighbourly Sorensons who actually want their 'nephew' Drummy (Chandler) to marry Joan for her money. Encouragingly Schaefer says to him, "It'd be an act of goodness to offer her your friendship - all of it." Ha ha. Excellent performance from Jan Sterling too.

As for Crawford herself, she was as riveting as ever, and looked fantastic, but I think someone should have had a word with her about toning down the eye bulging.

Thanks for the tip, srowley!