Musicals as a Genre
- charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Re: Musicals as a Genre
When I think about musicals, I tend to put musicals into two categories, musicals with stand out scores, like My Fair Lady, Oklahoma, Fiddler on The Roof, Guys and Dolls, to be more specific musicals with scores that are so well known to us. Then there are musicals that are made by the dancing, think Fred and Ginger, the scores are lovely, many from the American song book but watched more for the sheer elegance of Astaire and Rogers. Into this categroy I'd put in anything with Gene Kelly and Busby Berkeley. There are many films that meet both requirements, Singin' in the Rain being an example. Then there are films like A Star Is Born that don't neatly fit into either of my categories but I included it because it has songs, I think it's a great movie and deserved to be included.
My musical preference is nearly always for the dancing.
My musical preference is nearly always for the dancing.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
Re: Musicals as a Genre
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I've had the discussion many times with friends about what is a musical and what is a movie with music. The last being with our esteemed Mr. Rubini who finally made me give up my objections and just enjoy the show. I dropped out of this tournament in the second round because immediately I saw I could not choose judiciously. How could I possibly decide which was better - 7Brides for 7 Brothers or Oklahoma? Those were not the choices but the choice was similar.
I stated once that whatever musical I'm watching at the moment is my favorite. My idea of a musical is one whose songs replace spoken dialog such as when Lauri asks Ado Annie (in Oklahoma), what to do when a man holds your hand, and Annie starts singing "I cain't say no", she answers the question in song. Or when Will returns on the train and they ask him what's going on in Kansas City, and he sings "Everythings up to date in Kansas City", singing about the tall buildings and the paved streets, etc. Then there are the great musicals that don't replace dialog, but the songs reflect what is happening in the scene, such as "How can I ignore the boy next door", in Meet Me in St. Louis.
Biographies, and movies with songs in them are another category (to me). They inject songs, but the songs generally have nothing to do with the story or plot. Victor/Victoria is an example. Julie is a singer, so naturally she does songs on stage. Likewise with bios - the musicians music must be heard whether it is a Lerner & Lowe, or Ruth Etting. I was surprised to see a couple of Rogers/Astaire movies fit the 'musical' category, but the rest were movies with songs.
This, of course is just my opinion, and I bow to everyone else's choice. I feel the same about comedy also. There is the slapstick kind, like Bob Hope offers, and the pity/self pity kind of Charlie Chaplin. As long as there is music, I'm happy, and as long as something makes me laugh, I'm happy.
.
I've had the discussion many times with friends about what is a musical and what is a movie with music. The last being with our esteemed Mr. Rubini who finally made me give up my objections and just enjoy the show. I dropped out of this tournament in the second round because immediately I saw I could not choose judiciously. How could I possibly decide which was better - 7Brides for 7 Brothers or Oklahoma? Those were not the choices but the choice was similar.
I stated once that whatever musical I'm watching at the moment is my favorite. My idea of a musical is one whose songs replace spoken dialog such as when Lauri asks Ado Annie (in Oklahoma), what to do when a man holds your hand, and Annie starts singing "I cain't say no", she answers the question in song. Or when Will returns on the train and they ask him what's going on in Kansas City, and he sings "Everythings up to date in Kansas City", singing about the tall buildings and the paved streets, etc. Then there are the great musicals that don't replace dialog, but the songs reflect what is happening in the scene, such as "How can I ignore the boy next door", in Meet Me in St. Louis.
Biographies, and movies with songs in them are another category (to me). They inject songs, but the songs generally have nothing to do with the story or plot. Victor/Victoria is an example. Julie is a singer, so naturally she does songs on stage. Likewise with bios - the musicians music must be heard whether it is a Lerner & Lowe, or Ruth Etting. I was surprised to see a couple of Rogers/Astaire movies fit the 'musical' category, but the rest were movies with songs.
This, of course is just my opinion, and I bow to everyone else's choice. I feel the same about comedy also. There is the slapstick kind, like Bob Hope offers, and the pity/self pity kind of Charlie Chaplin. As long as there is music, I'm happy, and as long as something makes me laugh, I'm happy.
.
Anne
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Re: Musicals as a Genre
Sorry to be so reiterative, but for me the epitome of the perfect musical is "Love Me Tonight" (1932), the perfect blending of plot, dialogue and music. Unsurpassed!
Re: Musicals as a Genre
I split musicals into two. I call then either Drama/Musicals or just musicals. How I'm able to split them is that a movie where the performers start singing in a sort of fantasy way. Even though for example The Sound of Music, South Pacific, Funny Girl and West Side Story have plenty of drama in them, I still class them as musicals, because the artists for no reason suddenly still burst into song. In contrast, A Star Is Born, King Creole, Jailhouse Rock, Love Me Or Leave and even Fred and Ginger's The Vernon And Irene Castle Story are IMO drama/musicals, because the artists play musical performers who only sing and dance when on stage, or in a recording studio
Re: Musicals as a Genre
For what it's worth, I still think a "musical" is a movie that has its performers breaking out in song and dance for no particular reason with no one else finding it odd or out of place. Others that are generally catergorized as "musicals" are merely movies with a great deal of incidental music. Unfortunately, some films mix the two styles, which muddies the line separating the two.
But, hey. what do I know?
But, hey. what do I know?
"I'm at my most serious when I'm joking." - Dudley
Don't sweat the petty things - don't pet the sweaty things.
Don't sweat the petty things - don't pet the sweaty things.
- JackFavell
- Posts: 11926
- Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am
Re: Musicals as a Genre
I honestly never thought about it. A musical has musical numbers in it, and I don't care why. I think I tend to like the ones with spontaneous bursting better, but maybe that's not true - I haven't made a study of my favorites. All I can say is, who wants reality when they can have Fred and Ginger, Maurice and Claudette, Nelson and Jeannette, Betty and Don Ameche, Gene and Donald O'Connor, or Judy and anybody?
Re: Musicals as a Genre
exactly!!!!!
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
- intothenitrate
- Posts: 397
- Joined: January 11th, 2010, 3:12 pm
- Location: Cincinnati
Re: Musicals as a Genre
I have to chime in with feaito about Love Me Tonight. I watched it one night after reading through the tournament posts. I have the nice Kino edition, and played it with the commentary track turned on. The commentator said that when Mamoulian (reluctantly) took the assignment, he got together with Rodgers and Hart first, and then built the film around what they were thinking about musically. He had just finished Jekyll & Hyde--which has a stunning array of innovative direction. The three of them must have thought they were inventing a completely new filmic language.
So by design, Love Me Tonight has great organic unity, with all the various elements balanced in the service of the music.
So by design, Love Me Tonight has great organic unity, with all the various elements balanced in the service of the music.
"Immorality may be fun, but it isn't fun enough to take the place of one hundred percent virtue and three square meals a day."
Goodnight Basington
Goodnight Basington
Re: Musicals as a Genre
Hi Intothenitrate! Excellently put! My Kino DVD edition of the film is one of my cherished treasures. I watch the film and its extras every once in a while. What would I do to see the film complete without the cuts imposed by the Censors!
Re: Musicals as a Genre
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With my great love for musicals, and seeing them as often as I can, no matter what category they fall into according to my earlier explanation, I am going to go to the library and see if they have a copy of Love Me Tonight since I have never heard of it. I guess I'll go and look it up on imdB and see who's in it, but you guys have me curious. Everybody says how good it is, but nobody says what it is about, or who's in it.
With my great love for musicals, and seeing them as often as I can, no matter what category they fall into according to my earlier explanation, I am going to go to the library and see if they have a copy of Love Me Tonight since I have never heard of it. I guess I'll go and look it up on imdB and see who's in it, but you guys have me curious. Everybody says how good it is, but nobody says what it is about, or who's in it.
Anne
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]***********************************************************************
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* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *
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- intothenitrate
- Posts: 397
- Joined: January 11th, 2010, 3:12 pm
- Location: Cincinnati
Re: Musicals as a Genre
Oh Heavens. Maurice Chevalier and Jeanettte MacDonald are the principals, with a supporting cast including C. Aubrey Smith (love him), Charlie Ruggles, and Myrna Loy. And remember too that Chevalier and MacDonald played opposite one another in some earlier Paramount musicals directed by Ernst Lubitsch--so the bar was already set pretty high.
What do you think feaito, should we warn them about the song "Mimi?" It's trite, frothy and devilishly catchy. It's running through my head again even as I type this. It goes around and around in there and may make you start grinding your teeth!
What do you think feaito, should we warn them about the song "Mimi?" It's trite, frothy and devilishly catchy. It's running through my head again even as I type this. It goes around and around in there and may make you start grinding your teeth!
"Immorality may be fun, but it isn't fun enough to take the place of one hundred percent virtue and three square meals a day."
Goodnight Basington
Goodnight Basington
Re: Musicals as a Genre
And what about "Lover"??....and doesn't Charlie "fall flat on his flute"? And Myrna....she's priceless in this one.....and the scene with the doctor examining Princess Jeanette? And the hunt.....there are so many aspects to this film.intothenitrate wrote:Oh Heavens. Maurice Chevalier and Jeanettte MacDonald are the principals, with a supporting cast including C. Aubrey Smith (love him), Charlie Ruggles, and Myrna Loy. And remember too that Chevalier and MacDonald played opposite one another in some earlier Paramount musicals directed by Ernst Lubitsch--so the bar was already set pretty high.
What do you think feaito, should we warn them about the song "Mimi?" It's trite, frothy and devilishly catchy. It's running through my head again even as I type this. It goes around and around in there and may make you start grinding your teeth!
- JackFavell
- Posts: 11926
- Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am
Re: Musicals as a Genre
Love Me Tonight is wonderful, mrsl. Hope you enjoy it. I'd like to be able to see it again for the first time.
- intothenitrate
- Posts: 397
- Joined: January 11th, 2010, 3:12 pm
- Location: Cincinnati
Re: Musicals as a Genre
I'm just glad that we've been able to develop this thread without resorting to the term "goat gland."