Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
MissG - He's so hard to spot! He's pretty much in the dark or at the outskirts the whole time.
Here he is lighting his pipe on the left.
"One stove, belonging to Mary Kane, Colorado... two dollars." Ladd is on the left foreground, by the potbellied stove, with the female reporter.
This last one is the only really clear shot of him. But he gets the penultimate line in the movie.
Arkadin - I somehow have never paid any real attention to the most important scene in the whole movie - the 1929 sale of Charles' beloved Inquirer to Thatcher. I don't know how this scene slipped unobtrusively by for so many years, maybe Welles purposely made it grey and quiet amidst the uproar of the scenes of Kane's early life. Sometimes I get so bowled over by the staging that I forget to pay attention to what is happening to the characters... Charles' long walk to the back of the high ceiling-ed room takes my attention most times, rather than the words or feelings in that scene. You are very right that part of the key to Kane's life lies here, it looks like a puzzle piece deliberately hidden by Welles in plain sight. I even meant to mention my newfound love for this scene in my post, but forgot to in a haze of appreciation for the lighting in all those more exciting scenes. Kane has been much more sympathetic this go round for me because I took the time to pay attention, not just to that scene's last line.
Bernstein is really the one who knew Kane best, despite Jed Leland's claim to "best friend" status. Leland's outlook is clouded by hurt feelings and disappointment in Charlie - he was just too close. Bernstein pretty much has all the nuggets of wisdom in this movie - which makes sense - again, he is the most unobtrusive character in Kane's life, so we pay little attention to him.
ChiO -
Thanks. I thought Uncle John might be Woodrow Wilson, but I just couldn't remember who the other men were that Welles based Kane on...at first I was positive it was, because Hearst's wife's maiden name was Willson, but she was a cabaret dancer or something and it's spelled wrong. So thank you for the information. I still wish I knew who Welles was thinking of...
Here he is lighting his pipe on the left.
"One stove, belonging to Mary Kane, Colorado... two dollars." Ladd is on the left foreground, by the potbellied stove, with the female reporter.
This last one is the only really clear shot of him. But he gets the penultimate line in the movie.
Arkadin - I somehow have never paid any real attention to the most important scene in the whole movie - the 1929 sale of Charles' beloved Inquirer to Thatcher. I don't know how this scene slipped unobtrusively by for so many years, maybe Welles purposely made it grey and quiet amidst the uproar of the scenes of Kane's early life. Sometimes I get so bowled over by the staging that I forget to pay attention to what is happening to the characters... Charles' long walk to the back of the high ceiling-ed room takes my attention most times, rather than the words or feelings in that scene. You are very right that part of the key to Kane's life lies here, it looks like a puzzle piece deliberately hidden by Welles in plain sight. I even meant to mention my newfound love for this scene in my post, but forgot to in a haze of appreciation for the lighting in all those more exciting scenes. Kane has been much more sympathetic this go round for me because I took the time to pay attention, not just to that scene's last line.
Bernstein is really the one who knew Kane best, despite Jed Leland's claim to "best friend" status. Leland's outlook is clouded by hurt feelings and disappointment in Charlie - he was just too close. Bernstein pretty much has all the nuggets of wisdom in this movie - which makes sense - again, he is the most unobtrusive character in Kane's life, so we pay little attention to him.
ChiO -
Thanks. I thought Uncle John might be Woodrow Wilson, but I just couldn't remember who the other men were that Welles based Kane on...at first I was positive it was, because Hearst's wife's maiden name was Willson, but she was a cabaret dancer or something and it's spelled wrong. So thank you for the information. I still wish I knew who Welles was thinking of...
- MissGoddess
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
Thank you for the screencaps...so that IS him also in the room lighting the pipe, I wasn't sure if it was. I can't believe I have had this much trouble spotting him for so long.
By the way, it was the first time I'd re-watched in about 5 years, so it felt fresh and fun. The scene where CFK dances with the showgirls to the tune of "There'll Be a Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight" (I think that's the title) with the marching band, et al, looked like it could have inspired the political hoop-la scene in Ford's The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (which has the same music). Funny how politics just haven't changed at all.
By the way, it was the first time I'd re-watched in about 5 years, so it felt fresh and fun. The scene where CFK dances with the showgirls to the tune of "There'll Be a Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight" (I think that's the title) with the marching band, et al, looked like it could have inspired the political hoop-la scene in Ford's The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (which has the same music). Funny how politics just haven't changed at all.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
-- Will Rogers
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
Wow! I never noticed that! I have to go grab my copy of TMWSLV and look! Is that the part where they ride the horse in? Yup. Politics is politics. Ick! Or should I say Ickes?
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
I'd have to disagree with that. I find Bernstein to be somewhat of a "yes man", idolizing Kane to the point where he has no perspective, right down to justifying the Mexican war (for the record--I love Bernstein--he's the only guileless character). He's never Kane's equal, always an underling. Leland is bitter, but perhaps because he was close enough to see behind the facade. I think all the characters views are biased and you have to put all the perspectives together (plus the newsreel and the reporters at the end) and sift carefully to gain the best overview. However, all these insights depend upon the viewer's interpretation of the clues. Like Susan and our reporter, we spend our time playing with a puzzle, but the pieces can fit together in many different ways.JackFavell wrote:Bernstein is really the one who knew Kane best, despite Jed Leland's claim to "best friend" status. Leland's outlook is clouded by hurt feelings and disappointment in Charlie - he was just too close. Bernstein pretty much has all the nuggets of wisdom in this movie - which makes sense - again, he is the most unobtrusive character in Kane's life, so we pay little attention to him.
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
I suspect you are right. I didn't mean he was actually Charlie's best friend, but I think his view on why Kane was the way he was is spot on.
Bernstein is my favorite character too, although Paul Stewart comes close. I just realized watching this time that Paul's doing a pretty great Joseph Calleia impersonation.
Bernstein is my favorite character too, although Paul Stewart comes close. I just realized watching this time that Paul's doing a pretty great Joseph Calleia impersonation.
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
Even Marty finds him hard to figure:
[youtube][/youtube]
The sign on the fence says No Trespassing and though we are allowed inside for a brief period, Kane is still a mystery when we leave. Unlike Scorsese, I feel very much for this flawed man. I've pondered the idea if Kane is the ultimate cinematic argument against absolute truth, or perhaps proves the opposite (man is a fallen, corruptible being in need of redemption).
[youtube][/youtube]
The sign on the fence says No Trespassing and though we are allowed inside for a brief period, Kane is still a mystery when we leave. Unlike Scorsese, I feel very much for this flawed man. I've pondered the idea if Kane is the ultimate cinematic argument against absolute truth, or perhaps proves the opposite (man is a fallen, corruptible being in need of redemption).
Last edited by Mr. Arkadin on September 20th, 2011, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
I do feel for Kane, on a cyclical basis. I seem to be in a mood right now to feel sorry for him, but he is most purposely a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. It almost doesn't matter if we feel for him or not. He is what he is, and no amount of love or care will change him. No amount of investigation will bring him fully to us. He's a lot like my dad.
When Welles beckons us in, he puts his hand up to stop, and when he puts his hand up, he beckons us further in. We are smack up against the unknowable. In some ways, I think this is what brings me continually back - I keep thinking I will finally find the key. I thought I was close the other night. It's human nature to think we are special, that we alone can find out the secrets of the universe. Kane himself thought he could.
When Welles beckons us in, he puts his hand up to stop, and when he puts his hand up, he beckons us further in. We are smack up against the unknowable. In some ways, I think this is what brings me continually back - I keep thinking I will finally find the key. I thought I was close the other night. It's human nature to think we are special, that we alone can find out the secrets of the universe. Kane himself thought he could.
- JackFavell
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TOUCH OF EVIL or THE SPOILER HIMSELF
Don't read this if you've never seen Touch of Evil. There are SPOILERS here, in this garbage dump of a world.
I watched Touch of Evil yesterday, and I have to say, I feel like I never really saw it before. I was always looking at Welles makeup and the camera work, loving Akim Tamiroff as usual....laughing at Dennis Weaver's hopped up "night man" and Chuck Heston's starchy bronzed straight man, and enjoying poor Janet Leigh's plight in a most unhealthy way. It's so easy to get caught up in the fun of Welles, the puzzle of his mind. I barely remembered the plot, though I remembered certain scenes and Welles towering performance vividly.
Well, watching yesterday was quite the revelation. Because I am such a Joseph Calleia fan, I watched from his perspective. Oh my, I had no idea what I was letting myself in for! To watch Pete Menzies is to watch the heart of the film, and it's very, very painful. The movie became so much more for me seeing it this way. To see Quinlan through his eyes, oh, is it ever sad. At the beginning, Hank is a big man to Pete. See how much larger Hank is in this shot than Pete, and it's not just his girth:
The two friends... Hank and his shadow.
For me, watching the scales fall from Pete's eyes and maybe finally from Quinlan's, was brutal. Calleia is just superb, and I am not saying that because I am such a fan. It's simply true. His character - this simple, simple man - who probably ought not to have been a cop, well, he's better than pitch perfect... Pete wants so to believe what he's believed all along, that Hank is a great man. Pete's always been proud that Hank has allowed him to be part of his life.... but he starts to see something he has felt deep inside, maybe for a long time....something corrupt. Mixed in to this emotion is the sneaking suspicion that Hank only needs Pete as a fall guy. I feel so for him. But then, somehow, Hank catches that same sadness. Hank is unable to live, literally, with Pete's blood on his hands --- Welles ends on such a graceful, melancholy, tender note of friendship ruined..... it's heartbreaking.
Why is it that the garbage only swirls around Hank?
Long tunnels and doorways litter Touch of Evil:
Just in case you don't know what's going on, Welles gives us a little hint:
Welles gives us lonely vistas and the most claustrophobic shot I can think of, perfectly composed and lit:
Check out Pete's face here - he's half in the light, half in the dark...
Menzies on the inside looking out at Hank as he plots with Uncle Joe Grande:
Can you see Hank's reflection in the window on the left?
I watched Touch of Evil yesterday, and I have to say, I feel like I never really saw it before. I was always looking at Welles makeup and the camera work, loving Akim Tamiroff as usual....laughing at Dennis Weaver's hopped up "night man" and Chuck Heston's starchy bronzed straight man, and enjoying poor Janet Leigh's plight in a most unhealthy way. It's so easy to get caught up in the fun of Welles, the puzzle of his mind. I barely remembered the plot, though I remembered certain scenes and Welles towering performance vividly.
Well, watching yesterday was quite the revelation. Because I am such a Joseph Calleia fan, I watched from his perspective. Oh my, I had no idea what I was letting myself in for! To watch Pete Menzies is to watch the heart of the film, and it's very, very painful. The movie became so much more for me seeing it this way. To see Quinlan through his eyes, oh, is it ever sad. At the beginning, Hank is a big man to Pete. See how much larger Hank is in this shot than Pete, and it's not just his girth:
The two friends... Hank and his shadow.
For me, watching the scales fall from Pete's eyes and maybe finally from Quinlan's, was brutal. Calleia is just superb, and I am not saying that because I am such a fan. It's simply true. His character - this simple, simple man - who probably ought not to have been a cop, well, he's better than pitch perfect... Pete wants so to believe what he's believed all along, that Hank is a great man. Pete's always been proud that Hank has allowed him to be part of his life.... but he starts to see something he has felt deep inside, maybe for a long time....something corrupt. Mixed in to this emotion is the sneaking suspicion that Hank only needs Pete as a fall guy. I feel so for him. But then, somehow, Hank catches that same sadness. Hank is unable to live, literally, with Pete's blood on his hands --- Welles ends on such a graceful, melancholy, tender note of friendship ruined..... it's heartbreaking.
Why is it that the garbage only swirls around Hank?
Long tunnels and doorways litter Touch of Evil:
Just in case you don't know what's going on, Welles gives us a little hint:
Welles gives us lonely vistas and the most claustrophobic shot I can think of, perfectly composed and lit:
Check out Pete's face here - he's half in the light, half in the dark...
Menzies on the inside looking out at Hank as he plots with Uncle Joe Grande:
Can you see Hank's reflection in the window on the left?
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
This scene just took my breath away - It's an incredible visual with that long, straight, endless tunnel of ugly empty buildings just going on and on and on, as they drive fast through nowhere.... Why did this catch my attention? I've seen other films with cars driving along a road before - is it the skewed perspective, combined with maybe a wide angle or fisheye lens? What the heck is Welles doing here to make it look so weird? Are ALL the shades pulled down in those windows?
Hank doesn't make deals, he's big Hank Quinlan...
He doesn't drink either....
Hank's getting smaller. Vargas and Joe Grande have him up against a wall.
"Make that two double bourbons, and make them big ones..."
It's all Vargas' fault that Hank feels so small.
I love how the camera circles around Quinlan and behind his back, like Uncle Joe did, and then it just flies up into the air for the end of that scene. There is a lot of circling of Hank in the movie. First the garbage does, then we do, by way of the camera, then later, Pete will circle Hank when they are walking on the bridge, Pete trying to pin Hank down about Vargas.
Is Hank a big man or a small one? Similarly to Kane, we never really know. Is he a has been, or a man who never really was? Was it all sleight of hand on his part, all the way back to the beginning?
- MissGoddess
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
Great stuff, Wendy! Now I have to re-watch Touch of Evil. I've always admired it and all the performances. I always saw Hank the way Marlene's character did, she seems more objective about him but you get the feeling she will never forget what he used to be. He some kind of a man.
As usual, you notice details that went totally past me before. I remember being really angry at what happened to Joe Calleia (I don't think I knew the actor yet...I doubt I even connected him with the guy in Gilda or Algiers, and until you brought him to my attention those are the only roles of his I was familiar with). I like the idea of watching this movie through Pete Menzies' eyes. Gorgeous screencaps. I always liked Heston as Vargas and I love the way Welles says his name, lol. It clings to my mind.
As usual, you notice details that went totally past me before. I remember being really angry at what happened to Joe Calleia (I don't think I knew the actor yet...I doubt I even connected him with the guy in Gilda or Algiers, and until you brought him to my attention those are the only roles of his I was familiar with). I like the idea of watching this movie through Pete Menzies' eyes. Gorgeous screencaps. I always liked Heston as Vargas and I love the way Welles says his name, lol. It clings to my mind.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
-- Will Rogers
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
I wish you would re-watch, I'd love to hear what you have to say. I like that you can still hear Welles' pronunciation of "Vargas" in your head...
The movie had me crying like a baby this time. The way Calleia shakes while holding the papers that incriminate Quinlan, talking about what a man's career means to him.... his scene with Heston as they wire him up for recording, and finally that something so lost in Orson's face at the end. The capper is the way Marlene says the final line.
Yes, only Marlene and Joe remember him as he used to be.... but what was that? It's so tantalizing to me! He was some kind of man.... but even this line is too cryptic to really figure out. We have to rely on Marlene's eyes to get a glimpse of what Quinlan was.
The movie had me crying like a baby this time. The way Calleia shakes while holding the papers that incriminate Quinlan, talking about what a man's career means to him.... his scene with Heston as they wire him up for recording, and finally that something so lost in Orson's face at the end. The capper is the way Marlene says the final line.
Yes, only Marlene and Joe remember him as he used to be.... but what was that? It's so tantalizing to me! He was some kind of man.... but even this line is too cryptic to really figure out. We have to rely on Marlene's eyes to get a glimpse of what Quinlan was.
Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
"Was" -- as in "a long time ago" or "the man who just died", as he is floating Christ-like in a filthy river waiting for someone (Joseph of Arimathea, perhaps) to take him away.
Doggone it. Why didn't that Boy Genius ever make a decent movie after he got lucky with that first one?
Doggone it. Why didn't that Boy Genius ever make a decent movie after he got lucky with that first one?
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
"The puzzle of his mind..."
Wendy, your writing is expressively beautiful. You do not report 'just the facts, ma'am.' You report the heart and soul of the movie. ...And in turn, your heart is revealed. You've made me want to see this movie again and you've no idea what that means, when it involves movies I don't have an emotional connection with. It's a pretty powerful skill to make people re-visit a thing. What I mean is it's a pretty powerful skill to make people WANT to re-visit a thing.
Your subject line is..."The Eye of a Poet." Yes. You certainly have that.
Wendy, your writing is expressively beautiful. You do not report 'just the facts, ma'am.' You report the heart and soul of the movie. ...And in turn, your heart is revealed. You've made me want to see this movie again and you've no idea what that means, when it involves movies I don't have an emotional connection with. It's a pretty powerful skill to make people re-visit a thing. What I mean is it's a pretty powerful skill to make people WANT to re-visit a thing.
Your subject line is..."The Eye of a Poet." Yes. You certainly have that.
- JackFavell
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Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
Hey, I can't take any credit for the subject line, that's ChiO's. Thank you so much for the compliment, I think sometimes that everyone's groaning at these long posts. They help me work out the movie and Welles vision.
I hope you go back to Touch of Evil. I was really surprised at how much more emotional I thought it was this time. It helps with restorations because it makes sense now. I really am so happy if I managed to inspire a want in you to see the film. I think you'll enjoy it.
Chio = I'm sure you are being facetious.... I can't believe you don't like TOE. Did Welles think of it as a minor picture on the way to something else? I thought I read that somewhere.
'Washed clean' in the floating refuse of the river.....Is that the RIo Grande? Not U.S., not Mexico, but somewhere in between. There is so much layered symbolism here.
Another of those claustrophobic shots, in the elevator, with the boys. This is more than intimate. Politics make strange bedfellows:
Now it's Vargas' turn to crowd Hank:
Vargas has impuned Hank's good name, and so Hank makes himself small in this shot. But it's Hank's trick - he storms way back there to the door knowing full well that they will beg him to come back. They can't do without him. I had a boss who used to pull this all the time, she never trained anyone correctly so they could never do her job as well as she could, then she'd storm out and they'd give her more money. One day, they let her storm out and forgot to call her back. Hank didn't make that money mistake. So why does he fake it? What for? :
A few seconds later, Hank's big again - laying the seeds of suspicion at Vargas' feet. I love this shot - the beauty mixed in with the ugliness.
Quinlan at his biggest when he turns the tables on Grande:
I hope you go back to Touch of Evil. I was really surprised at how much more emotional I thought it was this time. It helps with restorations because it makes sense now. I really am so happy if I managed to inspire a want in you to see the film. I think you'll enjoy it.
Chio = I'm sure you are being facetious.... I can't believe you don't like TOE. Did Welles think of it as a minor picture on the way to something else? I thought I read that somewhere.
'Washed clean' in the floating refuse of the river.....Is that the RIo Grande? Not U.S., not Mexico, but somewhere in between. There is so much layered symbolism here.
Another of those claustrophobic shots, in the elevator, with the boys. This is more than intimate. Politics make strange bedfellows:
Now it's Vargas' turn to crowd Hank:
Vargas has impuned Hank's good name, and so Hank makes himself small in this shot. But it's Hank's trick - he storms way back there to the door knowing full well that they will beg him to come back. They can't do without him. I had a boss who used to pull this all the time, she never trained anyone correctly so they could never do her job as well as she could, then she'd storm out and they'd give her more money. One day, they let her storm out and forgot to call her back. Hank didn't make that money mistake. So why does he fake it? What for? :
A few seconds later, Hank's big again - laying the seeds of suspicion at Vargas' feet. I love this shot - the beauty mixed in with the ugliness.
Quinlan at his biggest when he turns the tables on Grande:
Re: Orson Welles: The Eye of a Poet
That tears it. I'm going to find the film today![b][u][color=#4000BF]JackFavell[/color][/u][/b] wrote:Hey, I can't take any credit for the subject line, that's ChiO's. Thank you so much for the compliment, I think sometimes that everyone's groaning at these long posts. They help me work out the movie and Welles vision.
Ooops, sorry ChiO. You deserve the compliment. And listen...naaaah, I don't think there's anyone groaning. You put a lot of thought into what you write. ...And I "forgive" you your Mitchum crack. ( )
'Washed clean' in the floating refuse of the river...