Has America gone Mad?

[ken123]

Last night on the Rachel Maddow Show ( MSNBC ) Frankie Schaffer a former fundamentalist leader, and son of Franklin Schaffer, a founding member of the religious right, in is current incarnation, spoke of the " Pray for Obama " Psalms 109.9 ( King James Version ),bumper stickers & shirts on sale at various websites . The full passage speaks of the death of and unjust ruler, that his children may be orphans, and his wife should be a widow. So much for Christian love. I was very reluctant to post this, but I felt that I must in that it shows how much hate that there is in America today just below the surface. Btw I did not vote for Mr Obama, or for Senator McCain for that matter. How anyone can pray for the death of anyone is beyond me. Didn't Jesus say love one another and pray FOR the people in power.

[mrsl]

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Ken 123:

You might recall a couple of months ago, I posted something about just this. I fear for Obama's life every day. His habit of going into the crowd to shake hands must drive the Security men crazy. Whoever is pushing these shirts and other items should be watched very closely, and it is just an extension of my question regarding what if people had arrived armed with uzis and holstered pistols at a Bush or Clinton town meeting - would they have been allowed to walk around as they did, and I don't care what state they were in, they had no right to appear that way, and the secret service should have arrested all of them.

[movieman1957]

Ken:

I agree with what you say about Jesus' request that you pray for those in power but also to the extent of loving your enemy and pray for those that persecute you. (Matthew 5:44.) (I draw no parallels of President Obama but only to point how far Jesus extended that command.) So, at minimum, the person you mentioned should be praying for the President. History is full of people co-opting scripture for their own reasons.

The only thing that may be hard to reconcile is applying a New Testament principle to an Old Testament situation. While they are not always in conflict the Old Testament is full of the Israelites' pleas for God to destroy their enemies or those who enslaved them.

[ken123]

Public Policy Polling has conducted a survey in which 52 % of Republicans polled believe that Barack Obama & Acorn stole the 2008 Presidential election[. Why would a polling firm ask such a question to begin with ?/b]

[silentscreen]

Off topic here a bit I'll admit, but I do wish President Obama would stop bowing. He's on an even keel with heads of state, and bowing isn't protocol. It embarrasses me every time he does it. What's he trying to say? A simple handshake would suffice and always has. He's the first U.S.president to resort to bowing, and deep 90 degree bows at that! Sheesh! IMO it makes him appear weak and the U.S.apologetic. I can't see Hillary bowing-she would know better.

"The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms....The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.

[ken123]

Off topic here a bit I'll admit, but I do wish President Obama would stop bowing. He's on an even keel with heads of state, and bowing isn't protocol. It embarrasses me every time he does it. What's he trying to say? A simple handshake would suffice and always has. He's the first U.S.president to resort to bowing, and deep 90 degree bows at that! Sheesh! IMO it makes him appear weak and the U.S.apologetic. I can't see Hillary bowing-she would know better.

"The bow as he performed did not just display weakness in Red State terms, but evoked weakness in Japanese terms....The last thing the Japanese want or need is a weak looking American president and, again, in all ways, he unintentionally played that part.

Nixon even bowed to the Emperor who ok'd the bombing of Pearl Harbor. This weakness argument is just bull IMHO. Please discuss important issues, not trivial stuff.

[MichiganJ]

Seriously?

Bowing is a sign of respect in many Asian countries including Japan and Korea, and is, essentially, a "simple handshake", and would, in fact "be protocol". Like the handshake, bows are used as greetings (as well as for many various reasons).

If a "simple handshake" has "aways sufficed", how do you explain President Bush's handholding with the King of Saudi Arabia? Was it just a matter of a little "don't ask, don't tell", or was he following protocol and being respectful?

Obama's "resorting" to bowing is not showing a sign of weakness, or should be seen as embarrassing, except, perhaps, in the minds of those in cable "news".

[silentscreen]

In my mind I was speaking of the degree of the bow. Nixon bowed, but it was the degree of the bow of which I was speaking, which in Nixon's case, was the correct degree. You can get into these discussions, and if you're in Obama's corner, which the majority are on this forum, there is no room for discussion. That is why I have given up discussing politics on this forum as it is very biased one way. It is by it's very nature un Ameican, though the majority would say that it isn't. If you are so partisan here, why do you object to any critscism of President Obama? There was is no objection to critiscism to Bush, which I agree was just in many ways. Pesident Obama is an ordinary man, so why the objection to his mistakes just like any other? You can't explain it can you? Only that you voted for him and that he disappoints. The very nature of your one way bias is what pulls me into the other corner like is does many other Americans. If you want me on your side. you need to think of another way besides the contradictory way to get me there. The more you use the negative tactics of the Republicans, the more you will draw me away. So just like them, you need to get back to the drawing board if you want to win another election. It won't work the second time.

It may get me kicked off board, and if it does, in the words of Charlotte's relative in My Voyager, I've been kicked out of better places than this, though I do like this board in oh so many ways.

[ken123]

In my mind I was speaking of the degree of the bow. Nixon bowed, but it was the degree of the bow of which I was speaking, which in Nixon's case, was the correct degree. You can get into these discussions, and if you're in Obama's corner, which the majority are on this forum, there is no room for discussion. That is why I have given up discussing politics on this forum as it is very biased one way. It is by it's very nature un Ameican, though the majority would say that it isn't. If you are so partisan here, why do you object to any critscism of President Obama? There was is no objection to critiscism to Bush, which I agree was just in many ways. Pesident Obama is an ordinary man, so why the objection to his mistakes just like any other? You can't explain it can you? Only that you voted for him and that he disappoints. The very nature of your one way bias is what pulls me into the other corner like is does many other Americans. If you want me on your side. you need to think of another way besides the contradictory way to get me there. The more you use the negative tactics of the Republicans, the more you will draw me away. So just like them, you need to get back to the drawing board if you want to win another election. It won't work the second time.

One - I didn't vote for Obama two - this hole line of reasoning is idiotic IMHO - Third Please dont be whiny. In 1968 the Us, South Vietnam & North Vietnam spent months argueing over the size of the table that the negotiations were being debated and other trivial aspects while thousands were killed or maimed. Then years later Nixon - Kissinger arrainged a peace agreement which with the same terms could have been negiatopned years before.If Obama was serious he would pull out of Afganistan right now, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff & the militiary industrial complex wouldn't like, not to forget the CIA. Critics of Bush were called traitors, so please dont try to rewrite history,

In your original post you said the no US President ever bowed, now you admit the Nixon bowed, but at the proper level, Ike also bowed to DeGaulle, but really who cares about this ? Umemployment is rising families are loosing their homes, helth care is a mess, the,banks & the insurance companies are ripping the people off and people care about bowing. Its insane !

[silentscreen]

I am not whiny. I am a hard working American and the least whiny person I know. I watch CNN, MSN, and all the stations. So don't accuse me of that! I don't pretend to know you, so don't pretend to know me.

[ken123]

I am not whiny. I am a hard working American and the least whiny person I know. I watch CNN, MSN, and all the stations. So don't accuse me of that! I don't pretend to know you, so don't pretend to know me.

Your post is full of self pity and saying that no one is allowing you to speak. No one is stopping you from speaking and having an opinion, but if someone dare speak back you revert to victimhood. Last year here I was actually banned from this thread, for awhile, because I dare citicize MsPalin, so much for alleged liberal bias here.

[silentscreen]

Ken,

I did vote in the last election. I'm what is known as an Independent. I really wasn't for either candidate. So I'm still on the shelf you see?

[ken123]

Ken,

I did vote in the last election. I'm what is known as an Independent. I really wasn't for either candidate. So I'm still on the shelf you see?

OK ! Lets move on !

[silentscreen]

I am not whiny. I am a hard working American and the least whiny person I know. I watch CNN, MSN, and all the stations. So don't accuse me of that! I don't pretend to know you, so don't pretend to know me.

Your post is full of self pity and saying that no one is allowing you to speak. No one is stopping you from speaking and having an opinion, but if someone dare speak back you revert to victimhood. Last year here I was actually banned from this thread, for awhile, because I dare citicize MsPalin, so much for alleged liberal bias here.

Well that's cool. I don't like her either in oh so many ways. I dislike not being able to speak my mind on a variey of issues. I don't think of victimhood, and you are wrong, but I'm sure that not knowing me I shall not be able to convince you otherwise, and that's okay. Cantor and his wife are on oppoisite sides of the political spectrum, are so are many others. Just what I've learned to expect. It's not self pity, I'm far beyond that. I'm an older lady, and I've come a long way. I don't disagree with the President on every thing that he says by any means, but I'm strong enough within myself to have some disagreements just like I was with Bush. Actually, it's Congress that I dont respect, not so much the President, so you see, I'm kind of in the middle, and you don't read me exactly right.

[ken123]

I am not whiny. I am a hard working American and the least whiny person I know. I watch CNN, MSN, and all the stations. So don't accuse me of that! I don't pretend to know you, so don't pretend to know me.

Your post is full of self pity and saying that no one is allowing you to speak. No one is stopping you from speaking and having an opinion, but if someone dare speak back you revert to victimhood. Last year here I was actually banned from this thread, for awhile, because I dare citicize MsPalin, so much for alleged liberal bias here.

Well that's cool. I don't like her either in oh so many ways. I dislike not being able to speak my mind on a variey of issues. I don't think of victimhood, and you are wrong, but I'm sure that not knowing me I shall not be able to convince you otherwise, and that's okay. Cantor and his wife are on oppoisite sides of the political spectrum, are so are many others. Just what I've learned to expect. It's not self pity, I'm far beyond that. I'm an older lady, and I've come a long way. I don't disagree with the President on every thing that he says by any means, but I'm strong enough within myself to have some disagreements just like I was with Bush. Actually, it's Congress that I dont respect, not so much the President, so you see, I'm kind of in the middle, and you don't read me exactly right.

OK !