No to St. Paddy's Day

[jdb1]

Let's be clear: I have no objections to economizing, and I wasn't complaining about living the simpler life. In fact, having been raised by two particularly parsimonious parents, I've observed that I I've been able to slip into the downsizing mode a lot easier than most of my colleagues.

However, what I was commenting on above stemmed, I think, from definite feeling of moving backwards. Families like mine gave up everything (and they didn't have that much to begin with) to come to this country a generation ago, so that their children would have more than they had. My experience of childhood has an "ever onward and upward" feel to it. We were poor when I was a kid, but as the years went on we began to enjoy a much nicer standard of living. Not rich, just more comfortable, with less of a need to worry about the future.

My employer has so far avoided significant layoffs by cutting our employee benefits. We anticipate even more things being taken away from us this year, and a probably salary freeze, even though the cost of living is going up. It's been a very long time since I've had to save up to buy a pair of shoes, but I'm doing it now. Not because I'm broke, but because I feel I'm regressing economically, and I may indeed be broke some time soon.

[ken123]

The market is up nearly 500 points today in response to the Treasury Departments release of their " toxic assets " package. The talking heads on CNBC all are in favor. Why then do I feel that is plan is another " Wall Street looting " of the US Treasury ? Ben Stein was just on CNN with" the Wolf man ", Mr Stein said , many times during the interview, " That Wall Street loves this plan,its something for nothing ". " Toxic assets " sounds Orwellian to me.

[srowley75]

It's not the fault of working people that healthcare has become so expensive, but we are the ones paying a terrible price for that reality.

And pardon my segue, but let me just say that if I have learned one thing in my 33 years alive on this planet, it is that the old chestnut about America having the best healthcare in the world is nothing but a head-in-the-sand lie. I can name many, many doctors that have screwed me and the members of my family over royally with bad diagnoses, bad surgeries, etc. but we all sure as hell paid full price for every "service," whether or not we had insurance. The worst experience of all that I can remember occurred when my mother had me (ironic, eh) and nearly died because of the careless, terrible sutures her doctor performed. Why my dad never sued the b****** for malpractice I'm sure I don't know.

When I was a small boy, my parents noticed that I had a slight tremor. My mother asked the pediatrician what could be causing it. He told her to eliminate caffeine in my diet. I had no caffeine for a lengthy period and the tremors persisted (in fact, they got worse as I got older). Since that guess wasn't right, my pediatrician told my mother that I would grow out of it. Many doctors (and medications) later, I still have the tremors at 33. And even though I've asked several times to be referred to a neurologist, I've nevertheless continued to have medications thrown in my face by careless morons who are only concerned about getting their pharmaceutical kickbacks. One idiot doctor prescribed Paxil and billed my insurance for psychiatric care. My insurance doesn't pay for psychiatric care and I had to foot the bill myself, despite the fact that I still had never seen a specialist who could potentially diagnose the source of the problem. Ironically, that same quack had a poster in his office proclaiming that doctors were being driven out of the business by malpractice suits. If you ask me, that's where many of them apparently belong, until they learn to give a damn about their patients as much as their pocketbooks.

[bryce]

it is that the old chestnut about America having the best (of anything) in the world is nothing but a head-in-the-sand lie

Now that I have internet again I was going to come into this thread and make some sarcastic comment about politicians. Instead, you hit on something I care about.

According to Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, there are only four things Americans do better than anyone else: music, movies, software and high-speed pizza delivery. That was in 1992. It was wrong then, it is even more wrong now, but the sentiment is damning enough. Our only offering to the world is pizza in thirty minutes or its free.

America's a myth. It always has been and it always will be. The American Dream, and thus America's promise, died in 1969. We're living in the aftermath.

Maybe we would have been better off with corrupt superheroes. Who watches the watchmen? A hell of a lot more people than those watching Obama and company.

[Birdy]

Regarding shopping - I just thought I'd throw in a little story. I live and work in a little village with one privately owned grocery store and a Dollar General. There is a lot of argument here about whether we should all shop at the tiny expensive grocery store or drive the 17 miles to Walmart. While I try to use the little store some ( say if I just need a loaf of bread and a bunch of bananas), you simply cannot feed a family from there. Your money goes twice as far at Walmart, even with the gas money. I'm very glad we have our little store, because there are people who live here who can't drive and it is handy in a pinch, but I can't afford to keep them open if they're not going to try to get us more reasonable prices. Thank God for DG so you can at least buy a roll of masking tape and a bottle of bleach without packing a lunch and taking a trip. (Don't ask why I would need both of those things at once.) I complain, but when I lived in the city, even though the store was only a couple of miles away, it took just as long to drive there because of the traffic so I try to be grateful that at least I'm moving down the highway instead of trapped in a hostile gridlock.
B

[jdb1]

Miss B, I can't even imagine living a life where you can't just walk up the block and get just about anything you need for daily life. The times that I've visited friends out of state and had to drive for half and hour just to get a container of milk are dark memories for me.

Interestingly, where I live there are plenty of little grocery stores, and in a reversal from, say, ten years ago, they are generally less expensive than the big supermarkets. We have a Stop & Shop, which I hate, and which I think outrageously expensive. By shopping in the smaller groceries and getting meat from the one and only butcher left in the neighborhood (we don't eat that much meat at home), I spend less per week than I would getting everything at S&S. I'm sorry you don't have that choice, but then again, you probably have a lot more space and fresh air, generally, than we do.

An attorney at a firm where I used to work always said how much he appreciated the convenience of living in New York City. He said "If it's 3 AM, and I need a pizza, or a ball gown, I know I can find it somewhere in New York!"

[Birdy]

Judith
I hate the big stores, too. Don't those lights just suck the life right out of you? We don't even have a proper downtown bakery anymore in the nearest decent sized town. It's all superstores. The best news? The farmer's market on the square where you can get the freshest food picked that day during the summer.

[srowley75]

Our only offering to the world is pizza in thirty minutes or its free.

I think we may also lead the world in the manufacturing of vacuous, fifteen-minutes-seeking "celebrities." (Though the last time I checked, Great Britain seems to be giving us a run for our money lately.)

Over the last year or so, I read Sinclair's The Jungle. Sinclair's been accused of fabrication in building the "based on true accounts" novel, and while it sometimes goes over the top, it's nevertheless interesting to see how accurate a picture of America it is, despite its being written a hundred years ago. We still have unhealthy and poorly prepared food wrapped in pretty packages and packed by workers who likely aren't given decent benefits or compensation, we still have rich and strong exploiting the poor and weak (especially immigrants - and in the meat packing industry!), and we still have a corrupt justice system. In fact, the book reminded me a lot of 1983's El Norte.

[Birdy]

He's another example of how spread out everything is around here. My sister has drive 15 miles east to take her daughters to soccer, 15 miles north to take her son her baseball, 15 miles west to take her other son to golf, and 15 miles south to take them all to music lessons. That's the closest opportunities. A lot of people drive further to to take part in bigger programs. But what do you do, leave them at home in front of the tube eating cheetos? And they are not overly involved people, just one activity at a time per kid plus music. But when you have 5 kids, it burns a lot of fossil fuel. (It's not like larger town where they sometimes have an after school activities bus available.) The poor woman needs a herd of horses, or something.

[charliechaplinfan]

Apart from the healthcare you could be describing Britain. I'm lucky to have plenty of supermarkets around here (Britain has lots of supermarkets!) but also some local shops like butchers, the survival of the butcher is down to how terrible meat is in supermarkets. I do an awful lot of homecooking, convert leftovers into new dishes, grow some fruit in the garden, etc. Food got an awful lot more expensive but it is leveling out now.

But the home energy prices!!!!! we have had a very cold winter, we believe in wearing jumpers, two if necessary but with two small children you have to have the heating on some of the time. For the last 3 months my bill was £600. Ten years ago £100 would do it for the coldest months of the year. it's an absolute rip off.

We've always been careful with money and can afford to pay t he prices but what about the pensioners who have saved all their lives, done what has been describied scrimped and saved, usually to pass an inheritance on to their children, there was pride to be had. Their savings dwindle, the go cold and get frightened about paying their bills. I work in banking dealing with the day to day needs of families, pensioners, singletons, students. Everyone is worried where this will end. Then there's the money Gordon Brown is quite happily giving away with nothing in return.

There is no reason to strive in this country, I've said on another thread that if you can't have a baby with a man who wants a baby you can have a house rent free and all taxes paid, plus money to live on. We have a whole class of people who are living quite nice lives, popping kids out with no regard to building a family but managing to live, not having to worry about paying the bills.

My friends can't afford to have a second child, people I work with and my brother who is five years younger than me have been completely shafted by the mismanagement of the economy, these people can't afford to have children, they work all hours to afford the overpriced properties that they had to buy.

It frightens me that when my children grow up there will be more of the children who have had the example of scrounging than there will children who've grown up in stable families and seen their parents go out to work. These are the people who will really have to pay the price, taking on the jobs and paying higher taxes, to support all the pensioners and scroungers. Let me be clear, I have no problem paying for the pensioners just the scroungers

And we once had such a proud history.

As an amusing? aside to end this rant. I recent y watched a film called The Ballad of Narayama, they solved the problem of having to support too many people in society. Once a person reached 70 the were carried to the top of a mountain and left their to die from exposure, perhaps we don't have it that bad

[Hollis]

Bryce,

I'm 56 for another 6 days so I lived through the "summer of love" in 67 and sundry other events in those times and I was wondering what exactly happened in 1969 that killed "the American Dream." Altamont? Enlighten me please. I'm curious about what event(s) were responsible for its demise. Personally, I see plenty of people still pursuing it, and attaining it. Your response please?

As always,

Hollis

[Ollie]

The Wall Street Bankers are just happy GW & Co got them their $800 Billion in under a week with hardly a fuss! Gee - if only that gang had to answer a TENTH of these questions...

[jdb1]

Bryce,

I'm 56 for another 6 days so I lived through the "summer of love" in 67 and sundry other events in those times and I was wondering what exactly happened in 1969 that killed "the American Dream." Altamont? Enlighten me please. I'm curious about what event(s) were responsible for its demise. Personally, I see plenty of people still pursuing it, and attaining it. Your response please?

As always,

Hollis

Hollis, I'm also wondering what specific occurence Bryce is referring to. Which is it, Bryce, or do you mean the general downturn of events? I think that as far as my generation is concerned, the center could no longer hold after the assissinations in 1968 of the two men we thought might have led us into some kind of new utopian order (I mean MLK and RFK). And 1968 was also the year of some of the best-organized and most vocal student uprisings; the mini-revolution in France came within a hair's breadth toppling that government, and there were similar goings-on all over the world. By 1969, the world had begun to look very different to us, and we reached a definite nadir once Richard Nixon worked his peculiar brand of magic on American society. Well, at the very least (or maybe it's the very best), we can now say in retrospect that the man was not a dope, and he didn't ruin the economy.

[srowley75]

I was wondering what exactly happened in 1969 that killed "the American Dream."

After doing some research, I found that Wal-Mart incorporated in 1969. For some, that'd be a good benchmark.

I guess it depends on whom you ask (or, for that matter, how you define that term). Arthur Miller and Edward Albee seemed to indicate in their plays that it never existed.

It just discourages me that overall, the more things change, the more they stay the same. As Judith indicated, it does seem like we're regressing rather than moving forward, and that's not restricted only to political matters. Overall, people just don't learn from anything. That's not so much exclusively American as it is universal, I suppose - it just seems like it's more "American" to rely on the assumption that we're "the best," instead of really being honest about the state of affairs.

[jdb1]

I was wondering what exactly happened in 1969 that killed "the American Dream."

After doing some research, I found that Wal-Mart incorporated in 1969. For some, that'd be a good benchmark.

All this talk about Wal-Mart -- what is it about them? We don't have any in the City, and I am so very curious to see what all the fuss is about. I also wouldn't mind picking up a few bargains . . . . oh, the employee rights issue thing . . . . . . . . . oops. Sorry.

Well, I guess you know you've been stressed out in the Big City too long when going to Wal-Mart seems attractive to you!