The Silver Screen Oasis

While I agree with you as to length, and that many of his comedies are hit or miss, most of the ones I like are very tightly directed - The Major and the Minor (my daughter was captivated watching it last night), The Apartment, and Love in the Afternoon, which I find to be charming. I also like Some Like it Hot. With the exception of the last, his directing is speedy and clear cut.

Wilder seems to me, at least in his earlier films to be able to self edit extremely well, in fact, his editing is one of the things I like most about him. A simple and judicious cut can mean everything in one of his films, for instance when, in Love in the Afternoon, Gary Cooper is romancing John McGiver's wife - instead of showing torrid lovemaking, he cuts to outside the door of the suite as the musicians hurriedly leave and quietly shut the door behind them. In this, he seems to have learned a lesson from Lubitsch.

That queasy feeling you speak of when talking about The Seven Year itch is also present in several other Wilder comedies - some of the same themes that work so well in his dramas make his comedies uncomfortable. His insistence in the sixties on writing about sex in the most cynical ways leaves me feeling a little disgusted, but I could deal with that if the movies were sharpened up. As I said, The Apartment is one of my favorites, and it is as cynical about sex as anything in this world. Why does it work? I don't see anything particularly wrong in the direction of Some Like It Hot, Seven Year Itch, The Fortune Cookie, and Irma La Douce aside from a little self- indulgence in two of them, letting that tight framework meander a bit. Frankly, I have never been able to get through Kiss Me, Stupid, because it seems to be going nowhere, flopping around from this scene to that, with no real meaning attached. I think the self-indulgence that he seemed prone to in his later films is most apparent in his choice of more adult themes. To my way of thinking, the ones that work best all seem to have a fable or fairy tale quality, no matter how cynical the trip is, the outcome is lovely, and perfectly done.

I would like to mention music in the Wilder films.... I realize after last night's watching of The Major and the Minor, that the swaying waltz from the ball scene is still stuck in my head. Music is so very important in Wilder's films - think of Norma Desmond slowly weaving her way down the stairs at the end of Sunset Boulevard - can you hear the tango playing in your mind? I bet you can. The lushly romantic orchestrations of certain films are in direct contrast to the cynicism we have been talking about. They betray that supposed cynical side of Wilder. When I think of Love in the Afternoon, I think immediately of the charming way music is integrated into the film by way of the tiny gypsy orchestra (the Viennese coming out in Wilder) - and the song "Fascination" starts to play in my head. When I remember Sabrina, "Lover" pops into my head, unbidden. The music in many of Wilder's films serves several purposes. First, to set the stage and rhythm of the film, like the edgy twenties inspired jazz at he beginning of Some Like it Hot, or the playing of By the Sea at the opening of the beach scene. Secondly, it can be a joke in itself, as in the tango scene. Thirdly, and most importantly, it can express what the characters are thinking or feeling, like Marilyn's "I'm Through with Love" number and that song's continued presence throughout the rest of the film. I am using Some Like it Hot as an example, because it has the most broad and easy to recognize cues - actual musical numbers. But my favorite Wilder films all have these same cues in varying degrees of subtlety. Sometimes, the music serves all the purposes at once, and this is when I think Wilder is a genius - In Sunset Boulevard, the tango at the end suggests the rhythm of the scene, replays the conflict for us, and is the expression of Norma's madness... it is the culmination of her romance with herself...

This dissection of the music, as well as comments on editing, makes me consider that, as much as we can be students of him, HE was a great student himself of films and audiences.

A lot of great writing here again. Thanks, everyone. It's fun watching these again just to see (or refute) your points. "Any excuse will do!" for watching these.

Whatever your opinion of Wilder, I very much recommend Cameron Crowe's book, Conversations With Wilder. It's as revealing as any biography and sits well next to Truffaut's Hitchcock interviews.

I came to Wilder via Marilyn, and therefor generally see Some Like It Hot first as a Marilyn film, and as she's so great, the fact that it's a bit too long is not much of a problem for me.

Took awhile for me to see The Seven Year Itch, and despite (and probably because of) the iconic Marilyn image, I pretty much despise the film. At its best, it's a filmed play.

As Dewey noted, the casting of Bogart in Sabrina is so off-putting that despite Hepburn's performance, after viewing, one wants to take a shower. ("Queasy" is the perfect word.)

And, while I had liked Sunset Blvd., each subsequent viewing makes it harder and harder to respect. The way silent film, and particularly silent films stars, are presented, is so mean spirited that it's difficult to take. While I understand this was part of Wilder's point, that Hollywood forgets its own history, the film does nothing but perpetuate, and in fact create, its own myths about silent film and its stars. It saddens me that many people who have seen Sunset Blvd. think of silent film as it is presented in Wilder's film.

Structurally, too, the films fails somewhat. (I'll say ***spoiler*** here, just in case). While marginally humorous, having a dead guy narrate the tale is pretty lame. Yea, I know the whole "morgue" sequence was cut (thankfully, too. Otherwise Sunset Blvd. would play like an episode from Tales From the Crypt), but the whole opening "mystery" is rendered silly by having the corpse being the narrator, and the narrator is entirely unnecessary. Worse, there are plenty of sequences in the film where the narrator wasn't present, and therefor could never know took place. Holden is not with Norma during the whole DeMille sequence (and there's way too much irony there to harp on), and of course he's already "swimming" during Norma's final close-up, in which Swanson herself resorts to insanely over-emoting--ala supposed silent film acting. (She should have known better, but I suppose, since this is the film for which she will always (and maybe only) be remembered, I guess why not. I really wonder what Pickford would have done with the role.)

Double Indemnity, however, I think is perfectly cast and executed. (Yup, intended.)

I always think Love in the Afternoon shouldn't have worked, Audrey looks so young and Gary Cooper looks his age and the gap in stills looks insurmountable but on screen it does work very well. As opposed to Sabrina which I love because of William Holden and Audrey Hepburn but balk at it when it comes to Humphrey Bogart, an actor I like but is just plain wrong for the part and whose age is an obvious problem.

The more books I read the more I realise that Willaim Holden was a busy boy in this period conducting fairly serious romances with Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn and having the odd moment with Shelley Winters.

I'm just the opposite on those two films. Gary Cooper is just too old and Audrey's teen-princess is just too much. But I enjoy the Bogart-Hepburn duo.

I like Sabrina - but agree about casting Bogart - the very little I've read says that Bogart was uncooperative in the extreme. Who would have been available to play the role, other than Bogart?

Well, Billy Wilder wanted Cary Grant for the part played by Bogart, but Grant--as he seemed to do with every good script between 1938 and 1969--turned it down.

One older actor who might have brought something different to the part:
Gary Cooper (oops, I guess he was waiting for Love in the Afternoon)

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I could very probably be wrong, but I seem to recall reading, or hearing that Bogey's production company (Santana, same name as his boat), owned the rights to Sabrina, which was the first movie the company made, so that would have given him his choice of director, and whether he wanted to play the part of the older brother. Does anyone know about this?

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think Bogart was perfect for Sabrina. He's supposed to be an older brother, locked into his routines, focusing solely on business, rigidly "right" in his opinions of himself ("right" as in correct). He merely takes on squiring Sabrina to fend off a threat to a lucrative business deal, and winds up having his world turned upside down. Cary Grant would have played "charming", he simply WAS charming no matter what he did. Bogart played "testy" and "cranky" and "confused" and finally, "smitten". Perfect!

knitwit45 wrote:I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think Bogart was perfect for Sabrina. He's supposed to be an older brother, locked into his routines, focusing solely on business, rigidly "right" in his opinions of himself ("right" as in correct). He merely takes on squiring Sabrina to fend off a threat to a lucrative business deal, and winds up having his world turned upside down. Cary Grant would have played "charming", he simply WAS charming no matter what he did. Bogart played "testy" and "cranky" and "confused" and finally, "smitten". Perfect!

I'll join your minority opinion, Nance. I like Bogart a lot in this film, and I think his onscreen chemistry with Hepburn was excellent. Bogart is an actor I would never think of as too old for anything -- he's iconic and timeless, and I find it perfectly conceivable that a woman of any age would find him attractive. There's nothing of the satyr in any of his performances - he could never be a dirty old man (same goes for Cooper), whereas a whole lot of other actors might be seen that way. I think Bogart and Holden are very good at conveying the opposite personalities of their characters. It makes the story far more acceptable -- even though they are brothers, Sabrina does have a real choice here because they are so different. If Cary Grant had been cast, I think an actor other than Holden should have played the brother -- they would have been too similar - Holden coming off as a younger, paler version of Grant.

Here's another vote for Bogart in "Sabrina." To me, he brings both the sense of a guy who feels his life running out on him and a real spark to his dislike for Holden.

For me, the problem in Sabrina isn't necessarily Bogart's performance--he's probably my favorite "classic movie actor", but the perceived age disparity between Bogart and Hepburn. Hepburn plays a naive adolescent experiencing her first crush. Holden recognizes that and wants to exploit it. Bogart is too much of the father figure to both Holden and Hepburn to then become the romantic interest.

The problem is still there in the remake, but less so because Ormand is never quite convincing as the school girl experiencing puppy love and there's a bit more experience represented in her time in Paris, so that when she returns, she's far more mature than Hepburn ever seemed to be.

in Love in the Afternoon, Hepburn is very much a mature young woman in control of her feelings and relationship with Cooper.

She's even more so in Charade, where, for me, Hepburn and Grant share the best chemistry.

No, I don't agree about Hepburn as Sabrina. I don't feel that the character is particularly naive or adolescent. And if she lived in that household she would have certainly seen, and perhaps experienced, the hanky-panky that rich boys love to perpetrate. What I get most from Sabrina is that she is excited with her newfound persona, and eager to participate in the high life, even if she is a bit unsure as to how to go about it.

To me, the age disparity simply points up how successful Sabrina's transformation is. I don't think she would be a trophy girlfriend/wife to Bogart, but I do think she would be one to Holden's character. Besides, there are plenty of young women out there who prefer a mature man, so that they don't have to go through all the nonsense they would in having to deal with a younger one. To my mind, Sabrina makes the right choice.

Poor Audrey would have been much further ahead had she tried to make a man out of the younger brother instead of trying to make a boy out of the older one. Bad, bad, bad.

But Dewster, why should she have to MAKE either of them into something else? As it is, Holden stepped up to the plate, and Bogie was able to step BACK from the plate. Love does funny things, doesn't it?