SPENCER TRACY - October, 2012 SOTM

[charliechaplinfan]

Well, you've all completely sold me on the biography.

The book I read on Kate seemed to be well researched by seemed to have an agenda to push that made her out to be a lesbian, she might have been but I felt it was the over riding reason for the book and her relationship with Tracy was far more complex and not as rosy as it's gone down in folklore. That's not to say they didn't love each other, I believe Kate loved Spence a great deal, I don't know Spence's side but I guess neither of them were easy people and Kate was very driven by her career. One thing I am sure of is that they are two astounding screen actors who were tremendously prolific in the kind of roles they took on. I'm looking forward to read the Tracy bio.

[moira finnie]

James Curtis addresses the biographies which emphasize a certain aspect of their subject's life at length and fairly in the book's appendix. It's not that he dismisses them, but being a serious biographer, applies a different standard to assessing their value. In his bio, he had access to such a wealth of factual material and personal documents and oral histories, the account is pretty straightforward, and not everyone comes across unsullied. For example, after finishing the book, my opinion of the talented team of Ruth Gordon and Garson Kanin was not raised.

[charliechaplinfan]

I felt the same when about Garson and Kanin when I read Kate, The Woman Who Was Katharine Hepburn, it really was very well researched although I wasn't convinced by his arguments for Kate's homosexuality and he did seem to be trying to prove that point but the rest was a well written and weighty tome at 656 pages. There's an awful lot of books about Kate out there, not as many about Spencer.

I am going to read the book but why do you think Spence made so many films with Kate? Were they tailored to them? A well loved and fimiliar team? Or was she essential to him?

[ChiO]

why do you think Spence made so many films with Kate? Were they tailored to them? A well loved and fimiliar team? Or was she essential to him?

Or, WOMAN OF THE YEAR (their first movie together) was popular and, in true Hollywood fashion, the studio went with and continued what seemed to work for as long as possible? Then they became a well-loved and familiar team?

[moira finnie]

I felt the same when about Garson and Kanin when I read Kate, The Woman Who Was Katharine Hepburn, it really was very well researched although I wasn't convinced by his arguments for Kate's homosexuality and he did seem to be trying to prove that point but the rest was a well written and weighty tome at 656 pages. There's an awful lot of books about Kate out there, not as many about Spencer.

I am going to read the book but why do you think Spence made so many films with Kate? Were they tailored to them? A well loved and fimiliar team? Or was she essential to him?

I think their working relationship was probably the least complex part of their lives. They certainly had a rapport on screen, and It must have been fun to leave the insoluble parts of life behind and head for the set to do what each of them did best. Their projects were sometimes written specifically for them, which explains why what many of us think is their best movie together, Adam's Rib, worked so well, as was Pat and Mike and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (which only works for me in Tracy's last scenes). Others, like State of the Union and Desk Set, were adapted for them from plays. While it is literally and dramatically dark and deliberately gloom-laden, I really like Keeper of the Flame for its lack of sunniness!

I really loathe Woman of the Year's last 40 minutes, but their spark was there in a some scenes, at least it seems to me (in the taxi, in the back room of the bar, and the meeting in the editor's office and on the stairs). I often find that except for the consistently entertaining Adam's Rib, I enjoy certain scenes in their films much more than the entire movie. Do you have a favorite Tracy-Hepburn film?

[charliechaplinfan]

I haven't watched them all, I really like Adam's Rib, Kate and Spencer are great and it has the added attraction of Judy Holliday and Tom Ewell. I was a bit dissappointed in Woman of the Year, I think Kate had to subjegate herself to Spence a bit too much for my liking but there are some good scenes in there. I liked State of the Union but the role was meant to be Claudette Colbert's if I remember and Kate stepped in at the last moment. I haven't watched Keeper of the Flame yet or Pat and Mike, I've seen quite a bit of Guess Who's Coming to Dinner but not all of it.

I've order Spence's book so I expect I'll be rewatching and watching some new Spencer films to go along with the reading. I'll watch all the Kate/Spence movies again and will give you a better answer in a couple of weeks time.

[JackFavell]

I thought I was the only one who hated the end of Woman of the Year. It's worse because the beginning is so highly enjoyable and has so much promise.

[CineMaven]

Put me in the "WOMAN OF THE YEAR"-MOVIE ENDING HATERS CLUB" too. Whew! That kitchen scene...


Something's in the kitchen with Di-NAH!

I scream: "PULL UP YOUR SKIRT STRAPS, ORDER TAKE OUT, AND GET OUTTA THAT KITCHEN, KATE!!!!" Funny...Kate never hears me.
The movie ends the same way ev'ry time I see it. G-r-r-r-r!!

[RedRiver]

Well...I don't loathe the film. It has moments of sad, stimulating drama. Unfortunately, there's also maudlin, relentless misery! Enough already! Get over it. The lead players are quite good. Aren't they always? You won't see me standing in line at a revival of this head-pounding. But I can't quite join the hater's club. It's better than THE AVENGERS!

[moira finnie]

I wonder if the Woman of the Year Haters Club might have more women members? I have read that Joe Mankiewicz was compelled to write this ending after a preview. In this portion of the interview found in Joseph L. Mankiewicz: Interviews [Conversations with Filmmakers series] edited by Brian Dauth (Univ. Press of Mississippi, 2008), it's pretty clear that the talented filmmaker's rewrite reflected the prevailing attitude toward women that permeated all of society at the time. All the same, I hope that no contemporary lunkhead tries to remake this movie in a politically correct fashion:

[RedRiver]

Fair is fair. McCLINTOCK makes this look enlightened!

[MissGoddess]

I think the ending is funny! It's Spence's reactions, or rather his trying not to show his reactions that is so funny. But the best part of the ending isn't even that scene, it's what comes after...Spence throwing that rotten little "Nermal" down the stairs!

And speaking for myself, I don't think I would trust Katharine Hepburn to cook anything.

[movieman1957]

The only disappointment I have about the ending is Hepburn's surrender. For one who has been so in control through 9/10 of the movie to be so completely lost seems a bit out of character. I do think Tracy has some fun reactions but I'd like to think there was a better way for them to get where they ended up. At least the other guy ended up in the right place - the bottom of the stairs. Overall I like the movie.

That's a good story though and certainly more right than I am.

[MissGoddess]

There were a lot of movies at that time about "average" people vs. intellectual or "upper" class and Woman of the Year seemed to be another variation, this time with a gender spin to it. Standing on her own as a character, I found Tess Harding a bit too arrogant. She had no humility and looked down on people who were in fact better than her because they didn't treat people that way. I wish the ending had been more clever, too, not because of whether she could cook or not, but because she was a spoiled pain in the neck to be around and needed to grow up. Her treatment of the child was shoddy at best and showed that she regarded people only to be put to use for her benefit. She's extremely modern in this respect, since today people are full of self-importance like never before. She'd have reveled in this "me generation" and doubtless would have her own talk show.

I liked her friend, Fay Bainter, SO much more. She was a gracious lady, someone you could really imagine being worthy of being called "woman of the year". "This time, I want to be the prize."

[JackFavell]

MissG, you really bring something to the argument for the ending. And don't get me started on Fay Bainter, she's a great, gracious favorite of mine, an extremely under-appreciated actress. I adore her.

Moira, that Mankiewicz quote is almost frightening, although I do understand how they came up with it. It feels right on paper, but on screen.....yikes!