The Silver Screen Oasis

moirafinnie wrote:
I prefer his appearance before the mustache became a standard part of his equipment. There is something open and vulnerable about his face then that inevitably faded as he became a big star.

I never used to care much for him sans the brush, but now I appreciate both looks and you're right, he does
look more open-faced and vulnerable. Good description.

A question for you guys. Spencer Tracy once said that one of the best things that ever happened to his career was leaving MGM, after which he felt that much better parts came his way. Why was Gable unable to find better contemporary parts after MGM? One of the very best, imho, was his last film, The Misfits, in which he gave a fine performance as an aging cowboy. Do you think that Tracy just had better luck or was he perceived as a character lead, while Gable was merely a leading man? And an expensive one, at that.

According to what I've read, especially in his personal manager's biography, it seems to me
CG didn't always have the best judgement when it came to choosing projects. I think he
tended to go for what sounded like sure bets, box office wise, instead of taking chances
or seeking artistic challenge. Many actors and actresses often fared better when the studios
made choices for them, a few functioned better on their own. I think Gable was stuck though,
between a rock and a hard place because Dore Schary was not interested in furthering the careers
of MGM's aging stars so staying with MGM would have meant more and more duds like Key to the City.

I think Tracy had more confidence in his abiilties and he could do parts that were borderline character
type roles, though still leads. Gable seemed to feel locked in but I suspect The Misfits (and the
little seen But Not for Me) would have been a turning point for him into more character-type work.

John Huston had a few projects he had Gable in mind for, most notably The Man Who Would be King (to
costar Bogart) but then Clark died before they could be realized.

I think that what JackF. and Miss G. say about Gable's choices, his status as an actor and his dependence on the studio system are good points. I haven't read the business manager's bio in some time, but I do recall how bitter the actor was over the lack of profit sharing at MGM, especially over GWTW. I don't remember that Gable actively looked for good scripts and I do think that his zest for his career began to fade with Lombard's death.

You and I have discussed the seldom broadcast But Not For Me (1959) before, Miss G. I really liked Gable's serio-comic performance in this, as well as Lili Palmer's sarcastic ex-wife and I especially enjoyed Lee J. Cobb's scenes with Gable. Played a different way, I just realized that But Not For Me might have been a bookend to Middle of the Night.

Unfortunately for this viewer, I never understood how Carroll Baker got so many roles in the late '50s, other than looking like Marilyn Monroe's less candescent but more stable sibling, but the world was blonde-crazy in those days, and she was from the Actor's Studio, so natch, some people thought she had something. What do I know?

Though he'd wanted Bogie and Gable in The Man Who Would Be King, at least Huston had a chance to get Connery in the cast of that one before his time was up.

Kind of hot & crowded over at TCM City, so if you don't mind me stopping by the oasis for a breather. May I weigh in on your question about Gable, Moira? You asked earlier: "A question for you guys. Spencer Tracy once said that one of the best things that ever happened to his career was leaving MGM, after which he felt that much better parts came his way. Why was Gable unable to find better contemporary parts after MGM..." I'm wondering if Gable was just a cash cow to M-G-M; groomed as a leading man can probably be limiting as well. Sometimes people love the good thing they got and don't want to mess up that good thing. And him being born in 1901, a different time, a different view of money. Tracy's perceived as the Actor and Gable's perceived as the Movie Star. I'll betcha Gable wishes he had a little bit of the respect Tracy had. And I'll betcha Tracy wishes he had a little bit of the sex appeal Gable had (in spades).

Oh yes...I've heard that gasp at Gable at the bottom of the "GWTW" staircase. And I've had to take a long deep breath myself at the sight of him.

I agree with Cinemaven, I think that's what Clark Gable was, he was the movie star, the money maker and the studio built projects around him. I think too he perhaps didn't want to push this marvellous luck that had brought him so far, MGM had made him a star, they knew their business and perhaps he didn't want to rock the boat. Perhaps if Carole hadn't have been killed he have felt securer to go after the roles that he challenged him more.

I'm not sure of Spencer Tracy's back ground prior to MGM but I do think if you are blessed with looks like Gable you're going to be typecast. Look at Errol Flynn, simply gorgeous, intelligent but a big moneymaker, he began to hate the movies he made and even more the image he had but he could and did take on character roles in middle age. Perhaps that's what these good lookers had to do, wait until their looks faded a bit. At least the men got more choice once they aged, I don't think it was as easy for the actresses.

Clark Gable was quite a rough diamond until his second wife got her hands on him and paid for dental treatment for him, as far as I know there are no pictures pre dental treatment and perhaps we wouldn't want to shatter the illusion. That's the only part of his life I find difficult to reconcile to the guy on the screen, he had married two older women, perhaps for security, perhaps to further his career.

As for moustache or not, I think not but I'm not too fussy.

charliechaplinfan wrote:I agree with Cinemaven, I think that's what Clark Gable was, he was the movie star, the money maker and the studio built projects around him. I think too he perhaps didn't want to push this marvellous luck that had brought him so far, MGM had made him a star, they knew their business and perhaps he didn't want to rock the boat. Perhaps if Carole hadn't have been killed he have felt securer to go after the roles that he challenged him more.

I think losing the Oscar for GWTW was a blow, too. I get the feeling after 1939 and particularly after the war,
taking risks for arts sake was not on the agenda for a man who'd known hard times. It was easier for Tracy,
though I bet life itself was harder for Tracy than for Gable. Tracy was way more complex and life is never
easy for the complicated.

I'm not sure of Spencer Tracy's back ground prior to MGM but I do think if you are blessed with looks like Gable you're going to be typecast. Look at Errol Flynn, simply gorgeous, intelligent but a big moneymaker, he began to hate the movies he made and even more the image he had but he could and did take on character roles in middle age. Perhaps that's what these good lookers had to do, wait until their looks faded a bit. At least the men got more choice once they aged, I don't think it was as easy for the actresses.

Tracy, like Gable, was a stage actor prior to John Ford spotting him in a play in New York which led him to Hollywood.
But Tracy's looks meant he had A LOT more choices. In fact, I generally point to Tracy, Cagney, Robinson and Bogart
as proof that the studio days were NOT only about "glamour" and that, in fact, these guys wouldn't have shot in
heck to get the kind of career today they had back then. NO WAY.

Clark Gable was quite a rough diamond until his second wife got her hands on him and paid for dental treatment for him, as far as I know there are no pictures pre dental treatment and perhaps we wouldn't want to shatter the illusion. That's the only part of his life I find difficult to reconcile to the guy on the screen, he had married two older women, perhaps for security, perhaps to further his career.

True, absolutely true. But he was an actor, and I know for a fact what a desperate breed they are. I put very
little past them. Sorry, that's just how it was and is for most (not all, but definitely MOST). I accept
that my favorites did a great many things that were highly compromising to get where they were. It's part of
the reality of show business. And at least in Gable's case, he MARRIED the women---they may have had a dentist
bill but they got a HUSBAND in return for their investment. Not bad. And he never allowed them to support him
financially---he in fact paid alimony to BOTH wives up until he married Carole.

I know I heard it from Jimmy Stewart, and I think it was Ronald Reagan, who said, among others, that after Carole Lombard died, Gable lost interest in life itself. In fact he enlisted in order to volunteer for the most difficult, and least likely to return from, encounters. When he returned after the war, he did a lot of little nothing movies although once in a while one came along that he could actually act in such as Command Decision, The Misfits, and Run Silent, Run Deep. With RSRD however, I think working with robust, athletic, and handsome Burt Lancaster caused more than one look in the mirror at his 57 year old face. He was still handsome, but not with that zip of youth, plus Carole's death had put a few more lines around an already rugged face. It wasn't until Kay came around finally, and pulled him out of his funk, plus getting pregnant which nobody except Loretta Young had done up to that point, which most likely gave him a sense of rebirth. Unfortunately his insistence on doing a lot of his own stunts probably caused his death sooner than might have normally been expected because he had to do some pretty active things on the set of Misfits - - the fights, holding those horses, and running, etc. I guess I can't really say that because I do believe when it's your time to go, nothing changes that, except for hoping it's not the pilot's time when you're flying on a passenger plane.

Actually all of the actors/actresses I admire from the Golden Age went out with style and grace. In those days we didn't hear of a lot of over dosing, or committing suicide, of course that could be due to agents and studio press men. But I do feel a pang in my heart when hearing of any of them from Cooper, to Gable, Grant, Hepburn, Davis, Crawford, etc. have left us. As I said however, they left with dignity and we mourned them and thank goodness they all made so many movies that have lasted.

Anne

”I like Carroll Baker and think she was a good actress, better than most of the bottle blondes of the period, but I can completely see why others wouldn't take to her. Her face isn't very expressive and she has a rather unattractive voice that sounds flat or monotone.” MissGoddess.

I’m a Carroll Baker fan though I haven’t seen many of her movies: “GIANT” “THE CARPETBAGGERS” “HARLOW” some of “BABY DOLL.” Always liked her voice; reminds me a bit of Ann-Margret’s voice.

”I think there was always something sort of ‘detached’ from the Hollywood game about Baker, a quality that Kim Novak also possessed. I mean, it's like Hollywood could bleach their hair and groom them and put them in the bombshell roles but they never seemed too impressed or desperate to be ‘stars’.” MissGoddess.

Those who don’t care about Hollywood or have a life outside of Hollywood probably survive better. It sure is an eat-em-up, spit-em-out kind of town. Only the strong survive.

”Perhaps that's what these good lookers had to do, wait until their looks faded a bit. At least the men got more choice once they aged, I don't think it was as easy for the actresses.” CharlieChaplinfan.

Reading you say this brings “THE SUN ALSO RISES” to mind. More difficult for actresses than actors I’d say Hollywood loves its youts. Seems to me I remember seeing a photo of Gable before dental work.

”I know I heard it from Jimmy Stewart, and I think it was Ronald Reagan, who said, among others, that after Carole Lombard died, Gable lost interest in life itself. In fact he enlisted in order to volunteer for the most difficult, and least likely to return from, encounters.” Mrsl.

I’ve read this too Mrs.l and I think losing Lombard was probably one of the defining moments of his life. My father said he remembers as a boy seeing a newsreel about Lombard’s death and how broken up Gable looked. I suspect Gable died that day in that plane crash as well.

Do you think life was easier for Clark Gable than Spencer Tracy? Perhaps until losing Carole, I think though you were talking about career wise. Spencer Tracy was had a certain something in the right roles, James Cagney, he sure had it, I'm sure Bogie had it too but I've never grasped it apart from in Casablanca. It is allwed for these men to take on bad guys but Clark the best he could expect was a tarnished hero. Did he ever appear as a bad guy apart from in his very first movies?

I think you have something about him not winning the Oscar for GWTW, Vivien quite rightly won but she was almost unknown and just had to meld herself into the role of Scarlett, Clark as Rhett, with all the preconceptions about that role, he was marvellous, one of the best male performances on screen and no Oscar. I can understand his dissappointment.

David Niven wrote very movingly about Gable in Bring on the Empty Horses, about how lost he was when Carole died and how when visiting David and his young wife, he ended up crying in her arms. So touching, fast forward a few years and it was Clark Gable's chance to help the young Englishman. I remember to that Gable was a very good friend to that young struggling actor in Hollywood. Perhaps there is some artistic licence in what David Niven writes but I think he has the essence of the man.

That slight chink in the armour that I brought up, his first two wives, you're right Miss Goddess, they are a pretty desperate bunch if half of the biographies I've read or to believed. I remember Clark's childhood was pretty poor and he was let down, the fact he did support them was to his credit and like you say they did get a husband, even for a while, I don't think either lady would have regretted their marriages. (would they?)

"Bring On The Empty Horses" is a great book and Niven has a wonderful style of writing. If anyone can find it anymore give it a read,

Hi CCFan!

charliechaplinfan wrote:Do you think life was easier for Clark Gable than Spencer Tracy?

I really could only hazard the wildest of guesses---it seems like with a deaf child, a less than happy marriage
and being a full-blown alcoholic, Tracy was probably the less happy.

I remember Clark's childhood was pretty poor and he was let down, the fact he did support them was to his credit and like you say they did get a husband, even for a while, I don't think either lady would have regretted their marriages. (would they?)

I've read interviews they both gave and they seemed to speak very well of him.

movieman1957 wrote:"Bring On The Empty Horses" is a great book and Niven has a wonderful style of writing. If anyone can find it anymore give it a read,

I love David's books! He was a GREAT raconteur.

David Niven is superb, sometimes we get clips of him telling his Hollywood stories on the telly, I could listen forever. I think it's Bring on The Empty Horses he talks about Errol Flynn, on the one hand it's almost laughable and almost criminal what Errol was like and then he turns it into a tale of poignancy, I've always felt sorry for Errol, but that's another thread.

I remember his tales of San Simeon as being some of the funniest in the book.

I found a batch of yummy hunnies and I need to relax....up first, two shots of Clark the
Air Force enlistee (the portrait is as heartstopping for me as anything Hurrell ever captured):