This musical director certainly possessed a magic touch. I have had mixed feelings about a lot of his musicals, because he could sometimes be so garish and over the top. On a Clear Day You Can See Forever, The Ziegfield Follies, Yolanda and the Thief... they are so full of surreal dream sequences and over the top decor, it's frankly frightening to me.
Meet Me in St Louis on the other hand, is lovely. I think this musical showcases what he was legendary for. I also enjoyed Gigi, because, although it had some flaws in characterization (at first she refuses to be his mistress and then she changes her mind without any visible internal conflict) it looked very nice and had quite an interesting storyline. I think women's history is interesting, so I have a fondness for both Gigi and Meet Me in St Louis for those particular reasons, too. They show something of the kind of society women were confined to at the turn of the century. Minnelli was interested in that subject as well, I think.
I just saw The Pirate thanks to my good friend Christine. At first I wondered whether this was going to be a good Minnelli or a bad Minnelli for me, but I was won over by the humour, the Douglas Fairbanks and Errol Flynn spoofs, Gene Kelly, the lavish scenery (done right this time, it looked great to me!) and what I detected as a quite adult overtone. I think someone here said that the story for this film is childish, and on the surface it might be, but it's really all about Judy Garland's hidden desire to let her hair down, isn't it? I like her chemistry with Gene Kelly as well. I was a bit disappointed with the ending, it didn't seem to belong to this film, but the rest of it was good entertainment.
So, what do you think of this musical director and his work? If you love him, why, and if you don't, why not? I'm curious about him. He had a very special style.
Vincente Minnelli
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Ann Harding
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Vincente Minnelli is a director that is very special to my heart. He was first a decorator and stage director. (I recommend his lovely book of memoirs I remember it well.)
His musicals are among the most sophisticated ever made and always extremely 'modern'. The Pirate (1948) is probably my favourite because of its fantastic script. Like you say, Hedvig, there is more to it that just a colorful musical. Judy lives in a dream world to escape from a dreary everyday life and an arranged marriage with an old buffoon (hilarious Walter Slezak). But her fantasies about a reckless and handsome pirate becomes 'reality' not quite the way she expected it! The miserable actor she despises, while secretly in love with him (Gene Kelly) is not the fearless pirate of her dreams, but the miserable cowardly mayor (W. Slezak) IS that pirate. Cole Porter's songs and music (up to a spoof of Ravel' bolero) are glorious so his Kelly's choreography.
Other Minnelli films exploits the same kind of 'daydreaming': Limehouse Blues in Ziegfeld Follies, Yolanda and The Thief, both with Fred Astaire, Brigadoon with Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse is also a film at the frontier of dream and reality.
I just love Minnelli!
His musicals are among the most sophisticated ever made and always extremely 'modern'. The Pirate (1948) is probably my favourite because of its fantastic script. Like you say, Hedvig, there is more to it that just a colorful musical. Judy lives in a dream world to escape from a dreary everyday life and an arranged marriage with an old buffoon (hilarious Walter Slezak). But her fantasies about a reckless and handsome pirate becomes 'reality' not quite the way she expected it! The miserable actor she despises, while secretly in love with him (Gene Kelly) is not the fearless pirate of her dreams, but the miserable cowardly mayor (W. Slezak) IS that pirate. Cole Porter's songs and music (up to a spoof of Ravel' bolero) are glorious so his Kelly's choreography.
Other Minnelli films exploits the same kind of 'daydreaming': Limehouse Blues in Ziegfeld Follies, Yolanda and The Thief, both with Fred Astaire, Brigadoon with Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse is also a film at the frontier of dream and reality.
I just love Minnelli!
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jdb1
Minnelli's impact on the movie musical is huge. However . . .
one of my very favorite Minnelli movies is The Long, Long Trailer, with Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. The three were an excellent match - it's a very funny and very entertaining movie that captures the Lucy/Desi essence perfectly. And Lucy looks gorgeous in every shot.
one of my very favorite Minnelli movies is The Long, Long Trailer, with Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. The three were an excellent match - it's a very funny and very entertaining movie that captures the Lucy/Desi essence perfectly. And Lucy looks gorgeous in every shot.
Vincente Minnelli is one of those favorites that I inexcusably tend to forget. Maybe it's because I feel as if I grew up seeing his movies (MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS, THE PIRATE, AN AMERICAN IN PARIS) and they are "just there".
With my interest (translation: obsession) in John Alton over the past couple of years, I've been rewatching their collaborations: FATHER OF THE BRIDE, AN AMERICAN IN PARIS (the ballet sequence, which is all the Alton filmed, is one of the marvels of film), TEA AND SYMPATHY and DESIGNING WOMAN. It has been a joyous reunion with a Master.
With my interest (translation: obsession) in John Alton over the past couple of years, I've been rewatching their collaborations: FATHER OF THE BRIDE, AN AMERICAN IN PARIS (the ballet sequence, which is all the Alton filmed, is one of the marvels of film), TEA AND SYMPATHY and DESIGNING WOMAN. It has been a joyous reunion with a Master.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
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charliechaplinfan
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For years I wanted to see The Pirate and it was never shown on British TV. I pounced on it when it had a DVD release. I think it is an excellent movie ans should be ranked with Meet Me In St Louis Gigi and An American In Paris.
I've just looked on the imdb. I hadn't realised how prolific a director he was. As well as the films mentioned above The Bad and The Beautiful, Tea and Sympathy, Some Came Running and The Bandwagon.
I realise by reading that list that I've only seen Minelli's musicals. I must be missing something.
I've just looked on the imdb. I hadn't realised how prolific a director he was. As well as the films mentioned above The Bad and The Beautiful, Tea and Sympathy, Some Came Running and The Bandwagon.
I realise by reading that list that I've only seen Minelli's musicals. I must be missing something.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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feaito
Minnelli was such a talented director. Even such films as "The Cobweb" (1955) which hadn't good critiques are quite engrossing, in my opinion.
I agree with Christine in that "The Pirate" (1948) must be one of the most sophisticated musicals ever done. "Yolanda and the Thief" (1945) is equally sophisticated but not as famous and in spite of the fact that I've seen it once, it left an everlasting impression on me.
Minnelli's non-musicals are equally good: "Some Came Running", "Two Weeks in Another Town", "The Clock", "Home from the Hill"....and why "Tea and Sympathy" hasn't been released on DVD is beyond me.
I agree with Christine in that "The Pirate" (1948) must be one of the most sophisticated musicals ever done. "Yolanda and the Thief" (1945) is equally sophisticated but not as famous and in spite of the fact that I've seen it once, it left an everlasting impression on me.
Minnelli's non-musicals are equally good: "Some Came Running", "Two Weeks in Another Town", "The Clock", "Home from the Hill"....and why "Tea and Sympathy" hasn't been released on DVD is beyond me.
Synnove mentioned someone said The Pirate was childish. It might have been me, she's thinking of because I can't get over how silly Judy Garlands' character was about the pirate. That factor ruined the movie for me, because I literally could not get over that feeling of watching a child's show. I had the same feeling while watching Yolanda and the Thief. I love the imagery and make believe of musicals, but for some reason, I can accept seven lumberjacks dancing around in the woods more than I can the foolish dialog of Yolanda and Judy's character. . . . Nuts . . . I know!
Anne
Anne
Anne
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I can understand that, I had trouble getting into it at first. I think, though, that it was not entirely unrealistic. I think people actually used to idolize pirates in this way. I can understand why repressed young women who had their lives mapped out for them would do it, at any rate, it seems like a natural reaction. And it's a bit funny. I didn't have a problem with the naive aspect of Judy's character - I don't know how old she is supposed to be either, but she isn't meant to be that old, is she?
Anyhow, I enjoyed the scene where she let her hair down and startled Gene Kelly, and the scene where she was eagerly dressing up to go and visit the pirate. I've been watching many silent movies from the 1910's lately, and it felt refreshing for me to see something so anti-victorian. I love that Gene Kelly calls her pure, and she totally shocks him. It seemed to me that her character was pretty good at keeping reality and fantasy apart for most of the film, though. In the beginning, when she is talking to her aunt, I really like her tone of voice when she says "I'll make him a good wife." She knows very well that her dreams have nothing to do with reality. She can't help dreaming of something else though. And because her life is so extremely tied to convention, her fantasies are equally extreme.
The only time she lets go of reality is when an Errol Flynn-like Gene Kelly appears on her doorstep acting like an impossibly glamorous pirate. She comes to her senses pretty soon though.
One thing I can't really get into with Vincente Minnelli is when he does these long ballet dream sequences, like in An American in Paris and Yolanda and the Thief. I know An American in Paris is widely regarded as a classic and won many Oscars. I guess that kind of thing just isn't my cup of tea. I didn't think the music for it was very special, I didn't enjoy the dancing very much, and I couldn't really see what it had to do with the rest of the story; the whole thing seemed redundant.
Alison, I don't know much about this director outside of musicals either! He is a very good director outside of the lavish musical numbers, though. I need to watch TCM a bit more.
Anyhow, I enjoyed the scene where she let her hair down and startled Gene Kelly, and the scene where she was eagerly dressing up to go and visit the pirate. I've been watching many silent movies from the 1910's lately, and it felt refreshing for me to see something so anti-victorian. I love that Gene Kelly calls her pure, and she totally shocks him. It seemed to me that her character was pretty good at keeping reality and fantasy apart for most of the film, though. In the beginning, when she is talking to her aunt, I really like her tone of voice when she says "I'll make him a good wife." She knows very well that her dreams have nothing to do with reality. She can't help dreaming of something else though. And because her life is so extremely tied to convention, her fantasies are equally extreme.
The only time she lets go of reality is when an Errol Flynn-like Gene Kelly appears on her doorstep acting like an impossibly glamorous pirate. She comes to her senses pretty soon though.
One thing I can't really get into with Vincente Minnelli is when he does these long ballet dream sequences, like in An American in Paris and Yolanda and the Thief. I know An American in Paris is widely regarded as a classic and won many Oscars. I guess that kind of thing just isn't my cup of tea. I didn't think the music for it was very special, I didn't enjoy the dancing very much, and I couldn't really see what it had to do with the rest of the story; the whole thing seemed redundant.
Alison, I don't know much about this director outside of musicals either! He is a very good director outside of the lavish musical numbers, though. I need to watch TCM a bit more.
Last edited by Synnove on March 19th, 2008, 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ann Harding
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I have to admit that I am the complete opposite, Hedvig: I love all Minnelli's ballets. In An American in Paris, I really don't like that much the film and the sketchy script whereas I adore the ballet which makes it unforgettable for me.
The Pirate was a bit of a flop at the time. The public didn't like to see Kelly and Garland not playing the all-American boy and girl. As for the way that Garland plays Manuela, I think it's partly tongue-in-cheek and exagerated like Kelly and partly 'innocent'. It's a film I connected to immediately when I saw it. I understood it better than Singin'in the Rain which took me a while to understand.....
The Pirate was a bit of a flop at the time. The public didn't like to see Kelly and Garland not playing the all-American boy and girl. As for the way that Garland plays Manuela, I think it's partly tongue-in-cheek and exagerated like Kelly and partly 'innocent'. It's a film I connected to immediately when I saw it. I understood it better than Singin'in the Rain which took me a while to understand.....
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jdb1
I'm not a big fan of The Pirate, and I can't remember ever actually seeing Yolanda -- I think I've seen excepts. For me, An American In Paris has sections of excellence, but like most Gene Kelly musicals, it goes on much too long (the possible exception being Singin' in the Rain, which is more cohesive, IMO).
There's something about The Pirate that really grates on my nerves, and I think Judy looks absolutely awful in it. If this was the movie in which the difficulties between her and Minnelli came to a head, it certainly shows, and Minnelli didn't do anything to help his wife look good on screen. And lordy, Kelly in those girly hotpants. Ugh!
I'd say that The Bandwagon is my favorite VM musical - I think Kelly and Minnelli together were like two overeager, artistic, frat boys, with Kelly seemingly calling the shots. The Minnelli and Astaire pairing is more to my liking.
There's something about The Pirate that really grates on my nerves, and I think Judy looks absolutely awful in it. If this was the movie in which the difficulties between her and Minnelli came to a head, it certainly shows, and Minnelli didn't do anything to help his wife look good on screen. And lordy, Kelly in those girly hotpants. Ugh!
I'd say that The Bandwagon is my favorite VM musical - I think Kelly and Minnelli together were like two overeager, artistic, frat boys, with Kelly seemingly calling the shots. The Minnelli and Astaire pairing is more to my liking.
That could also be because she was ill. It was a troubled production, to be sure.I think Judy looks absolutely awful in it. If this was the movie in which the difficulties between her and Minnelli came to a head, it certainly shows, and Minnelli didn't do anything to help his wife look good on screen
Hee hee...And lordy, Kelly in those girly hotpants. Ugh!
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Ann Harding
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When I first saw the film, I was totally unaware of the problems that Judy had off screen. I was never troubled by the way she looked in the film. I thought she was superbly lit by Harry Stradling. (I think she looks far worse in some sections of Summer Stock or A Star is Born, even then I don't mind: she was a great performer).jdb1 wrote:There's something about The Pirate that really grates on my nerves, and I think Judy looks absolutely awful in it. If this was the movie in which the difficulties between her and Minnelli came to a head, it certainly shows, and Minnelli didn't do anything to help his wife look good on screen. And lordy, Kelly in those girly hotpants. Ugh!
As for what you call 'hotpants', this is actually an homage to Douglas Fairbanks Sr's The Black pirate (1926). Kelly wears the same costume as Doug. He liked Fairbanks a lot as can be seen also in The Three Musketeers.
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jdb1
I don't recall Kelly's get-up as being quite the same as this. I couldn't find a photo of Kelly as Macoco. Anyone got one? In any event, I think the drag show element of The Pirate is always lurking just beneath the surface. My recollection of Kelly's outfit is that it looks like he's about to go out vogueing on a Saturday night. Nothing wrong with that, but there's tribute, and then there's travesty. I have a more than sneaking suspicion the drag show element in The Pirate was deliberate, and was the reason Kelly looks like a goddess, and Garland looks like a sickly frog.
