This week on SVENGOOLIE...

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laffite
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by laffite »

Swithin wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:59 pm
EP Millstone wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:30 pm
Swithin wrote: January 19th, 2023, 10:20 pm Kiss of the Vampire (1963) is on Svengoolie this Saturday, January 21, 2023. I have no recollection of having seen this film. The lead, Edward de Souza, is a great actor whom I first saw on stage at the National Theatre, London, in 1984.
Swithin,

If you enjoy Hammer Film horrors, I think that you'll find Kiss of the Vampire a treat. It is one of Hammer's superior productions, boasting solid direction by Don Sharp -- a dextrous and estimable filmmaker whose sharp (as in acute) sense of dynamic pacing is a hallmark of his movies -- a novel, crackerjack story by John Elder (Hammer producer Anthony Hinds), and a first-rate, top-notch cast. The memorable ending was a leftover twist intended for Brides of Dracula but discarded, in part, at the behest of BoD star Peter Cushing.
Actually, I enjoy some of Hammer horror films, but not all, e.g. I'm not a fan of the recreations by Hammer of the Universal monsters. I find those films stodgy (apart from The Scars of Dracula, which I haven't seen for decades and remember fondly.) But I do like many other Hammer horror films, so will look in on Svengoolie tomorrow.
I will adopt the playbook of some around here who unabashedly thrusts their opinions on others (usu. in the mode of "I don't give a rat's rear end...etc.) whether they damn well like it or not. I remember many, many, many, many years ago I actually got scared watching House on Haunted Hill and at that time was young and impressionable. Now I am grown up and cannot for the life of me understand why other grown-ups can watch this stuff. And friend Swithin, did I actually read a post of yours where they actually teach Horror in Universities over there across the pond, home to the great BBC where repeated brilliancies of screen marvels are produced apace. What budget would knowingly spend money on (gasp) Horror? What kind education are they offering over there? Do I detect a fall from Grace since Independence? Is it true now that without the Empire, the realm has shrunk to such decadence that Horror is being taught in all those high and exalted Institutions of higher learning. Woe to this modern world. Why would anyone stoop so low as Dracula one time at all, when one could be watching The Jewell and the Crown or even La Boheme for at least the 1,000th time each. Yes, Italy ; that used to be a "place where angels fear to tread" but now have risen to equality, even without an empire.

A little, or some, or all of the above may contain tongue-in-cheek subtleties.

P.S And Vampire movies? I know, I know ; To Each His Own. But are there limits?

P.P.S B'dea B'dea B'dea. Just Kidding Folks!!!

:smiley_snoopy: Are you quite done? Taisez-vous I'm trying to watch "I was a Teen-Age Werewolf!"

Lucky you, I have insomnia.

//
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
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TikiSoo
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by TikiSoo »

laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am Now I am grown up and cannot for the life of me understand why other grown-ups can watch this stuff.
Because it's a movie. Lighten up, willya? :smiley_shades:

My friends love Hammer films but I generally find them a bore -mostly for slow pacing- but often pretty blah dialogue too. But it's snowing and I'll be in all night, so most likely will give it a try. (and most likely will fall asleep)
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Swithin
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by Swithin »

laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am
I will adopt the playbook of some around here who unabashedly thrusts their opinions on others (usu. in the mode of "I don't give a rat's rear end...etc.) whether they damn well like it or not. I remember many, many, many, many years ago I actually got scared watching House on Haunted Hill and at that time was young and impressionable. Now I am grown up and cannot for the life of me understand why other grown-ups can watch this stuff. And friend Swithin, did I actually read a post of yours where they actually teach Horror in Universities over there across the pond, home to the great BBC where repeated brilliancies of screen marvels are produced apace. What budget would knowingly spend money on (gasp) Horror? What kind education are they offering over there? Do I detect a fall from Grace since Independence? Is it true now that without the Empire, the realm has shrunk to such decadence that Horror is being taught in all those high and exalted Institutions of higher learning. Woe to this modern world. Why would anyone stoop so low as Dracula one time at all, when one could be watching The Jewell and the Crown or even La Boheme for at least the 1,000th time each. Yes, Italy ; that used to be a "place where angels fear to tread" but now have risen to equality, even without an empire.
Lafitte, I'm surprised at you, since I regard you as among our more sophisticated posters! I have a degree in Theology. My favorite course was Demonology. I also had a course in the horror film. The horror films which surfaced at the beginning at the invention of cinema, represent contemporary expressions of those human feelings -- fears, concerns, expressions of unconscious longings, or just plain wonder -- that used to be expressed in folk tales, myths, oral traditions, literature, visual art, etc. These feelings have been represented in the past in the killing of Tiamat by Marduk; in Euripides' play The Bacchae, in which women tear a man to pieces, his mother then putting her son's head on a pike; Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus or A Midsummer Night's Dream; paintings by Goya and Fusili; or in any number of stories in all religions. Today, they are expressed in the horror film. As you know I love The Jewel in the Crown, but the horror film offers a much more primitive and elemental insight into the human consciousness. Frankenstein and Dracula were novels before they were horror films; and before that, the germs of their stories lurked inside the human mind since the beginning of time. So my recommendation to you, Lafitte, would be to expand your horizons and embrace the genre.

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Marduk killing Tiamat. She's his grandmother. A version of the dragon story is found in many ancient religions and also in the Book of Revelation.

Image
Painting by Goya

Image
Painting by Goya

Image
Painting by Fusili

Image
Rangda, Balinese Queen of the Demons

Image
Kali
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EP Millstone
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by EP Millstone »

Swithin wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:59 pm Actually, I enjoy some of Hammer horror films, but not all, e.g. I'm not a fan of the recreations by Hammer of the Universal monsters . . .
I think that we might have engaged in this discussion on The TCM Message Boards, Swithin.

I don't regard Hammer Films such as The Curse of Frankenstein and Horror of Dracula (original British title Dracula) as "recreations" or remakes of Universal horror films. They are simply adaptations of the stories by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and Bram Stoker. Veering in an entirely different direction than Universal, Hammer focused on Baron Frankenstein as "The Monster" instead of Frankenstein's creation. Hammer's first interpretation of Dracula resembled the Universal classic in name only. With the exception of the series' finale, The Satanic Rites of Dracula (in which Christopher Lee adopted a Lugosian tone of voice), the subsequent follow-ups exhibit even less of a resemblance to Universal's treatments of The Count.

The Wolfman was an original character, created by Curt Siodmak. The story in The Curse of the Werewolf was a liberal adaptation of The Werewolf of Paris by Guy Endore.

The only Hammer Film that could be described as a remake of a Universal monster movie is its 1959 production The Mummy. For that flick, Hammer got the official "A-OK" by Universal to do a remake . . . which actually references The Mummy flicks starring Lon Chaney, Jr. as "Kharis."
Last edited by EP Millstone on January 21st, 2023, 5:45 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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EP Millstone
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by EP Millstone »

laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am I will adopt the playbook of some around here who unabashedly thrusts their opinions on others . . .
In the immortal words of Eric Von Zipper:

Image

"You, I don't like."

. . . and keep your prissy, sticky fingers off my playbook!
"Start every day off with a smile and get it over with." -- W.C. Fields
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Swithin
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by Swithin »

EP Millstone wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:25 pm
Swithin wrote: January 20th, 2023, 9:59 pm Actually, I enjoy some of Hammer horror films, but not all, e.g. I'm not a fan of the recreations by Hammer of the Universal monsters . . .
I think that we might have engaged in this discussion on The TCM Message Boards, Swithin.

I don't regard Hammer Films such as The Curse of Frankenstein and Horror of Dracula (original British title Dracula) as "recreations" or remakes of Universal horror films. They are simply adaptations of the stories by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley and Bram Stoker. Veering in an entirely different direction than Universal, Hammer focused on Baron Frankenstein as "The Monster" instead of Frankenstein's creation. Hammer's first interpretation of Dracula resembled the Universal classic in name only. With the exception of the series' finale, The Satanic Rites of Dracula (in which Christopher Lee adopted a Lugosian tone of voice), the subsequent follow-ups exhibit even less of a resemblance to Universal's treatments of The Count.

The Wolfman was an original character, created by Curt Siodmak. The story in The Curse of the Werewolf was a liberal adaptation of The Werewolf of Paris by Guy Endore.

The only Hammer Film that could be described as a remake of a Universal monster movie is its 1959 production The Mummy. For that flick, Hammer got the official "A-OK" by Universal to do a remake . . . which actually references The Mummy flicks starring Lon Chaney, Jr. as "Kharis."
Yes, I think we did engage in this discussion before. That's why I didn't use the word "remake." But I find the movies in which Hammer uses the name "Frankenstein" or "Dracula" or "The Mummy" in the title, they tend to be rather stodgy and boring to me. Not because they use those names, rather because the films just turned out that way, i.e. boring.

There are Hammer films that I like, and that I don't find boring, e.g. this lovely lady, who turned up on TCM earlier this month:

Image
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LawrenceA
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by LawrenceA »

Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:51 pm

There are Hammer films that I like, and that I don't find boring, e.g. this lovely lady, who turned up on TCM earlier this month:
But don't you feel ashamed being a grown-up watching this stuff?
Watching until the end.
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laffite
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by laffite »

Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 10:29 am
laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am
I will adopt the playbook of some around here who unabashedly thrusts their opinions on others (usu. in the mode of "I don't give a rat's rear end...etc.) whether they damn well like it or not. I remember many, many, many, many years ago I actually got scared watching House on Haunted Hill and at that time was young and impressionable. Now I am grown up and cannot for the life of me understand why other grown-ups can watch this stuff. And friend Swithin, did I actually read a post of yours where they actually teach Horror in Universities over there across the pond, home to the great BBC where repeated brilliancies of screen marvels are produced apace. What budget would knowingly spend money on (gasp) Horror? What kind education are they offering over there? Do I detect a fall from Grace since Independence? Is it true now that without the Empire, the realm has shrunk to such decadence that Horror is being taught in all those high and exalted Institutions of higher learning. Woe to this modern world. Why would anyone stoop so low as Dracula one time at all, when one could be watching The Jewell and the Crown or even La Boheme for at least the 1,000th time each. Yes, Italy ; that used to be a "place where angels fear to tread" but now have risen to equality, even without an empire.
Lafitte, I'm surprised at you, since I regard you as among our more sophisticated posters! I have a degree in Theology. My favorite course was Demonology. I also had a course in the horror film. The horror films which surfaced at the beginning at the invention of cinema, represent contemporary expressions of those human feelings -- fears, concerns, expressions of unconscious longings, or just plain wonder -- that used to be expressed in folk tales, myths, oral traditions, literature, visual art, etc. These feelings have been represented in the past in the killing of Tiamat by Marduk; in Euripides' play The Bacchae, in which women tear a man to pieces, his mother then putting her son's head on a pike; Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus or A Midsummer Night's Dream; paintings by Goya and Fusili; or in any number of stories in all religions. Today, they are expressed in the horror film. As you know I love The Jewel in the Crown, but the horror film offers a much more primitive and elemental insight into the human consciousness. Frankenstein and Dracula were novels before they were horror films; and before that, the germs of their stories lurked inside the human mind since the beginning of time. So my recommendation to you, Lafitte, would be to expand your horizons and embrace the genre.

Image
Marduk killing Tiamat. She's his grandmother. A version of the dragon story is found in many ancient religions and also in the Book of Revelation.

Image
Painting by Goya

Image
Painting by Goya

Image
Painting by Fusili

Image
Rangda, Balinese Queen of the Demons

Image
Kali
I appreciate your written response very much and photos were terrific. But I wonder if you took me too seriously. You did not cite the rest of my post, which I believe made clear that most if not all was tongue-in-cheek and that insomnia mention was to be taken as true. No reasonaly serious person would ever post with a straight face all that stuff about the empire, decadence, and all that nonsense about watching La Boheme a thousand times. Thank you for your remark about “sophistication” but unfortunately it does not extend to writing parody since it doesn’t seem to come across. :(

Or maybe that’s all wrong. Maybe you mean that it requires a certain sophistication in the appreciation of the genre. Okay, but without the background you have, perhaps not so. I respond more favorably to those instances you cite from Western Civilization than I would from a movie. I admit though I am remiss in categorically rejecting Horror. Like anything else, there are good and bad examples. My prejudice is that the movies seem all to often to be mindless expressions of horror for horror’s sake. Sheer escapism. I doubt that most movies, Hollywood especially, are interested in the “elemental and primitive” aspect so much as they are obsessed with bulging box offices. Look at the endless making and re-making Frankenstein and Dracula movies. I can’t get through them and I tried (though not, admittedly, as assiduously as another might). I believe I am open enough to respond to what would represent the cream of the crop in the genre but it is (very) unlikely that I could categorically “embrace the genre.” So do tell me, in all seriousness, what would you consider the Casablanca of the horror genre (or near so). Please don’t say Dracula or Frankenstein, if possible. Hollywood has successfully poisoned my mind on those (if not all).

But The Jewell in the Crown is not horror, so why the comparison? I would that Ronald Merrick were a better personification of the elemental and primitive in a natural setting without the overt horror than I would some wide-eyed, gaping Lugosi staring interminably at the camera, aided by expressionist atmospherics that suggest sensationalism over true substance. You will say that is is an essential but it does not play that way to me. Let's face it, it's all but hackneyed when viewed with our modern sensibilities. I concede it is something when considering it's place in the history of the genre, but that doesn't help me when I looking at it.

But you are the academic and I am the average movie watcher. I think I remember theology with you but not the demonology. I cannot compete with you, academically (or intellectually I'm sure) and as to the movie watching, well I can only say, essentially, what I like and what I do not like, in the best way I possibly can. So an uneven match and I do of course recognize your expertise. The photos you sent are stupendous. I will save to the computer. Thank you for posting them. And for responding.
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laffite
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by laffite »

EP Millstone wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:25 pm
laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am I will adopt the playbook of some around here who unabashedly thrusts their opinions on others . . .
In the immortal words of Eric Von Zipper:

Image

"You, I don't like."

. . . and keep your prissy, sticky fingers off my playbook!
Sorry, should not have done that, especially under the circumstances. That was trolling. I shall overcome.
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Swithin
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by Swithin »

LawrenceA wrote: January 21st, 2023, 6:02 pm
Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:51 pm

There are Hammer films that I like, and that I don't find boring, e.g. this lovely lady, who turned up on TCM earlier this month:
But don't you feel ashamed being a grown-up watching this stuff?
No!
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by EP Millstone »

LawrenceA wrote: January 21st, 2023, 6:02 pm But don't you feel ashamed being a grown-up watching this stuff?
Pray tell, what stuff should a grown-up be watching, LawrenceA?
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Swithin
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by Swithin »

laffite wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:28 am
//
Lafitte, I wrote a response and it never appeared! That has happened to me before. I must be pushing the wrong buttons. I find it cumbersome to respond to posts that quote posts, I never know what to erase. (Need EP's guidance again, I guess.)

I don't consider myself an academic nor you an average movie goer! And it's not a question of looking for the Casablanca of horror, because often the best expressions of horror reside in the crudest, most elemental movies. I'm merely saying that horror films are the mode of expression through which today's folktales and myths are expressed, and I think they have the same validity as the means in which the stories were transmitted through the ages. I mentioned Jewel in the Crown because you did, and I agree that Ronald Merrick is a horrible person!
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by EP Millstone »

Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 7:17 pm . . . I find it cumbersome to respond to posts that quote posts, I never know what to erase. (Need EP's guidance again, I guess.)
Swithin,

Take a look at my December 24 post with a, I hope, helpful visual aid.
"Start every day off with a smile and get it over with." -- W.C. Fields
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laffite
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by laffite »

LawrenceA wrote: January 21st, 2023, 6:02 pm
Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:51 pm

There are Hammer films that I like, and that I don't find boring, e.g. this lovely lady, who turned up on TCM earlier this month:
But don't you feel ashamed being a grown-up watching this stuff?
lol
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
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Re: This week on SVENGOOLIE...

Post by LiamCasey »

LawrenceA wrote: January 21st, 2023, 6:02 pm
Swithin wrote: January 21st, 2023, 5:51 pm

There are Hammer films that I like, and that I don't find boring, e.g. this lovely lady, who turned up on TCM earlier this month:
But don't you feel ashamed being a grown-up watching this stuff?
I occasionally feel ashamed of being a grown-up. But never because of this!
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