Noir Alley

[HoldenIsHere]

I have seen this twice before and I didn't realize that Nell was so off the deep end. But that look we got when she was looking in the mirror, preening with jewelry A glimpse of the real Marilyn? I wonder how many takes it took to accomplish that final scene. Marilyn was fantastic there. That depleted look on her face, the body language, the turning away from (Anne), the way she said "...somebody entirely else." the way she surrendered the razor, even the elegant way she took the policeman's hand to be led away.>weep<
/

Since you mention Marilyn Monroe's final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK, I'm re-posting something I posted earlier in tis this thread:

Marilyn Monroe's performance in this movie is amazingly subtle. Her acting talent and instincts were not recognized by the movie industry during her lifetime.
According to Anne Bancroft, Marilyn Monroe disagreed with director Roy Baker and her drama coach Natasha Lytess on how to play the final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK and ignored their advice.

Here's what Anne Bancroft said about Marilyn Monroe's work in that scene:
"The talent inside that girl was unquestionable. She did it her way and this got right inside me, actually floored me emotionally.
It was a remarkable experience! Because it was one of those very rare times in Hollywood when I felt the give and take that can only happen when you are working with good actors . . . There was just this scene of one woman seeing another who was helpless and in pain. It was so real, I responded. I really reacted to her. She moved me so that tears came into my eyes. Believe me, such moments happened rarely, if ever again, in the early things I was doing out there.”

By 1957, Anne Bancroft became dissatisfied with the movie industry and returned to New York to study acting and focus on work in the theater. She didn't return to movies until 1962 when she appeared in THE MIRACLE WORKER, reprising the role she had played on Broadway.
Top

[ElCid]

I have seen this twice before and I didn't realize that Nell was so off the deep end. But that look we got when she was looking in the mirror, preening with jewelry A glimpse of the real Marilyn? I wonder how many takes it took to accomplish that final scene. Marilyn was fantastic there. That depleted look on her face, the body language, the turning away from (Anne), the way she said "...somebody entirely else." the way she surrendered the razor, even the elegant way she took the policeman's hand to be led away.>weep<
/

Since you mention Marilyn Monroe's final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK, I'm re-posting something I posted earlier in tis this thread:

Marilyn Monroe's performance in this movie is amazingly subtle. Her acting talent and instincts were not recognized by the movie industry during her lifetime.
According to Anne Bancroft, Marilyn Monroe disagreed with director Roy Baker and her drama coach Natasha Lytess on how to play the final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK and ignored their advice.

Here's what Anne Bancroft said about Marilyn Monroe's work in that scene:
"The talent inside that girl was unquestionable. She did it her way and this got right inside me, actually floored me emotionally.
It was a remarkable experience! Because it was one of those very rare times in Hollywood when I felt the give and take that can only happen when you are working with good actors . . . There was just this scene of one woman seeing another who was helpless and in pain. It was so real, I responded. I really reacted to her. She moved me so that tears came into my eyes. Believe me, such moments happened rarely, if ever again, in the early things I was doing out there.”

By 1957, Anne Bancroft became dissatisfied with the movie industry and returned to New York to study acting and focus on work in the theater. She didn't return to movies until 1962 when she appeared in THE MIRACLE WORKER, reprising the role she had played on Broadway.
Top

In 1957 Bancroft made The Girl in Black Stockings for Bel Air productions. An interesting little movie, but somewhat disjointed. Bancroft did OK, but not one of her best performances. Of course the script and direction may have had something to do with that.

[ElCid]

I would recommend going to TCM section of the boards and click on Noir Alley. Hopefully Lomm can lock out the other one.

[laffite]

I have seen this twice before and I didn't realize that Nell was so off the deep end. But that look we got when she was looking in the mirror, preening with jewelry A glimpse of the real Marilyn? I wonder how many takes it took to accomplish that final scene. Marilyn was fantastic there. That depleted look on her face, the body language, the turning away from (Anne), the way she said "...somebody entirely else." the way she surrendered the razor, even the elegant way she took the policeman's hand to be led away.>weep<
/

Since you mention Marilyn Monroe's final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK, I'm re-posting something I posted earlier in tis this thread:

Marilyn Monroe's performance in this movie is amazingly subtle. Her acting talent and instincts were not recognized by the movie industry during her lifetime.
According to Anne Bancroft, Marilyn Monroe disagreed with director Roy Baker and her drama coach Natasha Lytess on how to play the final scene in DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK and ignored their advice.

Here's what Anne Bancroft said about Marilyn Monroe's work in that scene:
"The talent inside that girl was unquestionable. She did it her way and this got right inside me, actually floored me emotionally.
It was a remarkable experience! Because it was one of those very rare times in Hollywood when I felt the give and take that can only happen when you are working with good actors . . . There was just this scene of one woman seeing another who was helpless and in pain. It was so real, I responded. I really reacted to her. She moved me so that tears came into my eyes. Believe me, such moments happened rarely, if ever again, in the early things I was doing out there.”

By 1957, Anne Bancroft became dissatisfied with the movie industry and returned to New York to study acting and focus on work in the theater. She didn't return to movies until 1962 when she appeared in THE MIRACLE WORKER, reprising the role she had played on Broadway.
Top

Thank you. I remember now reading that. It wasn't directly in my mind when I wrote the post. I had the same reaction when I saw DBTK years ago. But your post certainly reads well after viewing the movie last night. That is mighty testimony from Anne. No one listened. Marilyn's good looks worked against her. The Industry could only see a sexpot good only in sex comedies.

I believe Marilyn had an acting coach with her with most or all of her movies. I know it drove Billy Wilder crazy.. Marilyn needed one (though I don't approve the practice) probably because she was intimidated by directors, and that she felt alone.

But I don't second guess her. All is good, Dear Marilyn. RIP.

[jamesjazzguitar]

I believe Marilyn had an acting coach with her with most or all of her movies. I know it drove Billy Wilder crazy.. Marilyn needed one (though I don't approve the practice) probably because she was intimidated by directors, and that she felt alone.

But I don't second guess her. All is good, Dear Marilyn. RIP.

I guess you didn't see Eddie's comments after the film. He mentions her acting coach Natasha Lytess (he showed a photo of the two), and how that drove the director of Don't Bother to Knock Roy Backer crazy as well as legendary directors like Hawks, Huston, and Wilder.

My understanding from the Huston book was that they didn't have an issue with Marilyn having a coach, but that Lytess was on the set 24\7 and would often contradict any instructions from a director (instead of helping Marilyn understand how to play a scene as requested by the director). When they would attempt to throw Lytess of the set, Marilyn would have a fit causing more delays (after already showing up late!).

[laffite]

I believe Marilyn had an acting coach with her with most or all of her movies. I know it drove Billy Wilder crazy.. Marilyn needed one (though I don't approve the practice) probably because she was intimidated by directors, and that she felt alone.

But I don't second guess her. All is good, Dear Marilyn. RIP.

I guess you didn't see Eddie's comments after the film. He mentions her acting coach Natasha Lytess (he showed a photo of the two), and how that drove the director of Don't Bother to Knock Roy Backer crazy as well as legendary directors like Hawks, Huston, and Wilder.

My understanding from the Huston book was that they didn't have an issue with Marilyn having a coach, but that Lytess was on the set 24\7 and would often contradict any instructions from a director (instead of helping Marilyn understand how to play a scene as requested by the director). When they would attempt to throw Lytess of the set, Marilyn would have a fit causing more delays (after already showing up late!).

Yes, I remember that. He mentioned the particularities of the case with DBTK.

But as you point out this acting coach thing affected later directors later, I know for sure that it bothered Wilder(as well as all her indiscretions on the set), which is what I said. All her coaches were a PITA (as I have read).

[jamesjazzguitar]

I believe Marilyn had an acting coach with her with most or all of her movies. I know it drove Billy Wilder crazy.. Marilyn needed one (though I don't approve the practice) probably because she was intimidated by directors, and that she felt alone.

But I don't second guess her. All is good, Dear Marilyn. RIP.

I guess you didn't see Eddie's comments after the film. He mentions her acting coach Natasha Lytess (he showed a photo of the two), and how that drove the director of Don't Bother to Knock Roy Backer crazy as well as legendary directors like Hawks, Huston, and Wilder.

My understanding from the Huston book was that they didn't have an issue with Marilyn having a coach, but that Lytess was on the set 24\7 and would often contradict any instructions from a director (instead of helping Marilyn understand how to play a scene as requested by the director). When they would attempt to throw Lytess of the set, Marilyn would have a fit causing more delays (after already showing up late!).

Yes, I remember that. He mentioned the particularities of the case with DBTK.

But as you point out this acting coach thing affected later directors later, I know for sure that it bothered Wilder(as well as all her indiscretions on the set), which is what I said. All her coaches were a PITA (as I have read).

I agree with you about Wilder, and so does Eddie. He mentioned all 3 of those legendary directors. Thus what you said, is what Eddie said, and that was what I was pointing out. I.e. instead of you saying "I believe Marilyn,,,", you could have just said "Eddie confirmed that,,,,". (I hope you can agree that what Eddie believes \ says carries a little more weigh then what you or I or other at this forum have to say).

[laffite]

I guess you didn't see Eddie's comments after the film. He mentions her acting coach Natasha Lytess (he showed a photo of the two), and how that drove the director of Don't Bother to Knock Roy Backer crazy as well as legendary directors like Hawks, Huston, and Wilder.

My understanding from the Huston book was that they didn't have an issue with Marilyn having a coach, but that Lytess was on the set 24\7 and would often contradict any instructions from a director (instead of helping Marilyn understand how to play a scene as requested by the director). When they would attempt to throw Lytess of the set, Marilyn would have a fit causing more delays (after already showing up late!).

Yes, I remember that. He mentioned the particularities of the case with DBTK.

But as you point out this acting coach thing affected later directors later, I know for sure that it bothered Wilder(as well as all her indiscretions on the set), which is what I said. All her coaches were a PITA (as I have read).

I agree with you about Wilder, and so does Eddie. He mentioned all 3 of those legendary directors. Thus what you said, is what Eddie said, and that was what I was pointing out. I.e. instead of you saying "I believe Marilyn,,,", you could have just said "Eddie confirmed that,,,,". (I hope you can agree that what Eddie believes \ says carries a little more weigh then what you or I or other at this forum have to say).

Oh, you think I was stealing Eddie's point. Well, I was referring to my own memories about what I read. Eddie fades in and out with me. Everybody knows about Marilyn's behavior anyway. It's general domain info. I surprised you would make a deal of this.

[jamesjazzguitar]

Yes, I remember that. He mentioned the particularities of the case with DBTK.

But as you point out this acting coach thing affected later directors later, I know for sure that it bothered Wilder(as well as all her indiscretions on the set), which is what I said. All her coaches were a PITA (as I have read).

I agree with you about Wilder, and so does Eddie. He mentioned all 3 of those legendary directors. Thus what you said, is what Eddie said, and that was what I was pointing out. I.e. instead of you saying "I believe Marilyn,,,", you could have just said "Eddie confirmed that,,,,". (I hope you can agree that what Eddie believes \ says carries a little more weigh then what you or I or other at this forum have to say).

Oh, you think I was stealing Eddie's point. Well, I was referring to my own memories about what I read. Eddie fades in and out with me. Everybody knows about Marilyn's behavior anyway. It's general domain info. I surprised you would make a deal of this.

Wow, we are really failing to communicate. Of course I know you were referring to your own memory. So my point all along is that you should have "stole" the comments Eddie made instead of depending on your memory of these points. Why speculate instead of just referencing Eddie's comments? Note that since I'm on the west coast I typically see Eddie's after-film comments for Noir Alley twice; Once late Saturday, and early Sunday morning (I miss the film since that is too early, but typically catch just the end of the film and his comments.

[laffite]

I agree with you about Wilder, and so does Eddie. He mentioned all 3 of those legendary directors. Thus what you said, is what Eddie said, and that was what I was pointing out. I.e. instead of you saying "I believe Marilyn,,,", you could have just said "Eddie confirmed that,,,,". (I hope you can agree that what Eddie believes \ says carries a little more weigh then what you or I or other at this forum have to say).

Oh, you think I was stealing Eddie's point. Well, I was referring to my own memories about what I read. Eddie fades in and out with me. Everybody knows about Marilyn's behavior anyway. It's general domain info. I surprised you would make a deal of this.

Wow, we are really failing to communicate. Of course I know you were referring to your own memory. So my point all along is that you should have "stole" the comments Eddie made instead of depending on your memory of these points. Why speculate instead of just referencing Eddie's comments? Note that since I'm on the west coast I typically see Eddie's after-film comments for Noir Alley twice; Once late Saturday, and early Sunday morning (I miss the film since that is too early, but typically catch just the end of the film and his comments.

You are much more assiduous in listening to every word by Eddie than I am. You evidently do not have a DVR, that accounts for it then.

Nuff said on this, I hope.

[ziggy6708a]

so THIS is where we post this now??

[jamesjazzguitar]

Moonshine, ah, let’s face the facts, nothing better than that. I’m confused as well about the noir aspect of this movie, but I’ll give it a go and let you know. El CID will be watching the cars.

Luke and the local moonshiners are noir protagonist in that they are fairly decent individuals who find themselves trapped between the law and hardcore criminals. This theme is central to the film; E.g. the many scenes where the local Christian practices are on display. (the breakfast scene where the younger Mitchem at first says a phony prayer until mom slaps him into shape). The funeral and church service for the driver killed by the criminal gang. These scenes are done to show the basic decency of the hill folks. Barry, the LAW, recognizes this and tries to give these decent local folks a break, but it is too late, since the hillbilly moonshine culture has to end in the 20th century.

Of course there is the most iconic noir actor in Mitchum. E.g. in the first meeting with the top hood Mitchum's reply to his offer is to smack him down!

Hey, I don't consider the film "noir", but with hoods, cars, booze, gals, guitar music and MItchum at the center, the film has a lot to offer.

[ElCid]

James. Thanks for your comments re: why it has noir elements. I watched, but did not hear Eddie explain why he thought it was noir. I think another noir element was that it was kind of "dark" in many settings, especially the night time driving scenes.
Liked that Eddie explained that it was filmed in Transylvania Co., NC, but the city location apparently was in Asheville (Buncombe Co.), note Asheville Pharmacy in a couple of scenes. Major city in Transylvania Co. is Brevard. No vampires.
I actually have a 45 RPM record of Mitchum singing "The Ballad of Thunder Road." The reverse has him singing "My Honey's Lovin' Arms."
Yes, I did look at the cars quite closely. Interesting, especially the '55 to '57 models.
Overall, I think it rates highly as a very interesting and entertaining movie, but then Mitchum fails to entertain.

[Hoganman1]

Agreed, it's not a noir in the purist sense. However, it's a good film about rural life in the 50s. Also, I couldn't pass up a chance to see Robert Mitchum.
It was interesting seeing Mitchum acting with his son.

[jamesjazzguitar]

James. Thanks for your comments re: why it has noir elements. I watched, but did not hear Eddie explain why he thought it was noir. I think another noir element was that it was kind of "dark" in many settings, especially the night time driving scenes.
Liked that Eddie explained that it was filmed in Transylvania Co., NC, but the city location apparently was in Asheville (Buncombe Co.), note Asheville Pharmacy in a couple of scenes. Major city in Transylvania Co. is Brevard. No vampires.
I actually have a 45 RPM record of Mitchum singing "The Ballad of Thunder Road." The reverse has him singing "My Honey's Lovin' Arms."
Yes, I did look at the cars quite closely. Interesting, especially the '55 to '57 models.
Overall, I think it rates highly as a very interesting and entertaining movie, but then Mitchum fails to entertain.

Eddie's after the film comments has a political tone related to overreach by the Federal government as it relates to regulations, taxes and a over burdensome Federal government, that benefited the rising corporate America while hurting mom and pop types businesses. Note that the moonshiners that Mitchum's family was associated with made a first class product. I think that is important since it supports the POV that these moonshiners were not hurting anyone. There has been other movies where the Feds crackdown on moonshiners but they were sell crap that could hurt someone or even kill them. Those type of moonshiners should be shutdown, but mom and pop businesses that make a first rate product and don't sell to minors; like I said, these were decent Christians folks.